FAO: Phaedrus

[Enver]

I abhor socialism and communism

Why so? :confused:

[Phædrus]

Because collectivism always, invariably results in loss of personal liberties. I also believe that it results in a reduction--or even elimination!--of technological and societal progress. Also, while it may be stable in countries with small, one or two resource economies, I believe that no man or council of men can guide a large country's economy.

Also, another big turn off is the way that 90% of the communists and socialists I've met have done nothing but shout "Exploitation! Corporations! Burgousie!" Hell, someone even called me a member of the burgousie once. Now, I'm not poor, but I'm by no means rich or even that well off. I live in a two bedroom apartment, for Ghu's sake!

Also, most of the communists and some of the socialists I've talked to who could rationally debate have supported a period of totalitarianism to "get people accustomed to a socialist society", or to "prevent a capitalist resurgence." Totalitarianism is the one thing I will not abide, in any form or for any cause.

I don't think capitalism is perfect either, by the way. Corporations do exploit people and are essentially pseudo-governments. The problem is, I don't know what to replace them with. Not collectivism, though.

[Enver]

Because collectivism always, invariably results in loss of personal liberties.

Not if it's a genuine attempt to change society. Capitalism deprives the majority of people of their basic human rights.

I also believe that it results in a reduction--or even elimination!--of technological and societal progress.

What do you base this on? As for societal progress; it has been the labour or working class movement that has largely achieved the improvement in human rights in the West over the last 100 years or so. Many of the liberties we take for granted were not handed down from any government or corporation but were struggled for and must be defended accordingly.

Also, while it may be stable in countries with small, one or two resource economies, I believe that no man or council of men can guide a large country's economy.

I too am opposed to centralisation. It is inherently undemocratic, and that's why capitalism is incompatible with democracy as it means the centralisation of power in the hands of the few.

Also, another big turn off is the way that 90% of the communists and socialists I've met have done nothing but shout "Exploitation! Corporations! Burgousie!"

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Also, most of the communists and some of the socialists I've talked to who could rationally debate have supported a period of totalitarianism to "get people accustomed to a socialist society", or to "prevent a capitalist resurgence." Totalitarianism is the one thing I will not abide, in any form or for any cause.

Again, I am in complete agreement with you.

I don't think capitalism is perfect either, by the way. Corporations do exploit people and are essentially pseudo-governments. The problem is, I don't know what to replace them with. Not collectivism, though.

In my view any solution would require a highly corporative and collectivised society.