Should Religious People be Allowed to Raise Kids?

[Phædrus]

Considering Al Fatiha's latest homophobic hate rant, I'm inclined to say no. If Al Fatiha is any indication of the average religious person I would class them in with the Nazis. Of course, his particular brand of hate speech isn't the norm in average Christians or even Muslims, but we must take into account the fact that many children who grow up in extremely religious households are bigoted and superstitious.

What's your take?

http://www.digital-karma.org/files/images/holy-bible.img_assist_custom.jpg

[Enver]

Yes, but the teaching of religion should be removed from all schools.

[Phædrus]

Yes, but the teaching of religion should be removed from all schools.

Well, I think students can be taught about religion, as long as one religion isn't favored over another, but I agree, religious doctrine has no place in public schools, even if the area the school is in is 99% one religion.

[Enver]

Well, I think students can be taught about religion, as long as one religion isn't favored over another, but I agree, religious doctrine has no place in public schools, even if the area the school is in is 99% one religion.

Yea that's what I meant.

[bay]

but I agree, religious doctrine has no place in public schools, even if the area the school is in is 99% one religion.

agreed! My parents grew up in salt lake city and are NOT Mormons. My mom said she remembers the few nonmormon kids being sent for one activity while the mormon kids got their daily dose of indoctrination in the public schools

[Don melQuiades]

I turned out all right.

[Gareth]

I think faith schools should be allowed. (I waits for the flaming :))

[bay]

I dont have any problem with faith based schools, just dont' think the public should pay for them

[Viv]

I don't like them. It causes division. Went to one myself while my friends were over the field in a non-denominational school.
But there is terrible religious bigotry in Scotland. It carries through to adulthood.
I really do not like it.
Religion should be removed from schools. It is under debate here, people are complaining about it as new high schools are being built throughout the area and people feel this is the time to make a change and abolish this old-fashioned nonsense in the name of progression and eradication of religious divisions.

[donquixote99]

Considering Al Fatiha's latest homophobic hate rant, I'm inclined to say no. If Al Fatiha is any indication of the average religious person I would class them in with the Nazis. Of course, his particular brand of hate speech isn't the norm in average Christians or even Muslims, but we must take into account the fact that many children who grow up in extremely religious households are bigoted and superstitious.

What's your take?

http://www.digital-karma.org/files/images/holy-bible.img_assist_custom.jpg

I think it's bigotry to stereotype religious people as being intolerant, hateful fundementalists. Religion can likewise be a force for moral progress. The successful anti-slavery movements in Britain and the US sprang from religious motivations. The accomplishments of the religious working for civil rights, peace, and social advancement compare favorably to those of leftist revolutionaries, I would say.

'Good will to all' goes a long way, I'd say. Indeed, it's lack is almost irredeemable, whether one is 'god-minded' or not.

[ciaranxavier]

no religion in the schools. the school is a place to learn not to worship. religion is a job for the parents if they want to teach their children their religion at home on their own time then that is the duty of the parent. seperating the schools by religion only aids to the sectarian divisions we see in our society today.

[Gareth]

Absolutely if it is a secular school, it should be taught in a different way to it in a faith school. However faith schools should definetely exist to make a place for the religious in the wider community.

[ciaranxavier]

Absolutely if it is a secular school, it should be taught in a different way to it in a faith school. However faith schools should definetely exist to make a place for the religious in the wider community.

no they shouldnt, create a seperate school to teach religion to those children on their own time. their should be a national school program and national schools without religion. religion is something the parents should commit themselves to teaching their kids.

[Al Fatiha]

Considering Al Fatiha's latest homophobic hate rant,

Let me make this clear without getting banned.

I don't Hate homosexuals.

On the other hand, I don't waste time talking to them or associating with them.


If I was eating at a resturant and the waiter was obviously gay. I would ask the manager for another person to serve me. It's not that I hate the waiter. But I just wouldn't want a gay touching my food.

Same if I was shopping at a store. If an effeminate homosexual salesperson asked if I need help. I would just say that I was only looking.
Then later if a normal salesperson asked to help me. I would let him sell me the product and get the commission.

This isn't Hate. I just choose the salesperson who is normal and not abnormal.

It's my money and I should be free to spend it any way that I want.

[ciaranxavier]

Let me make this clear without getting banned.

I don't Hate homosexuals.

On the other hand, I don't waste time talking to them or associating with them.


If I was eating at a resturant and the waiter was obviously gay. I would ask the manager for another person to serve me. It's not that I hate the waiter. But I just wouldn't want a gay touching my food.

Same if I was shopping at a store. If an effeminate homosexual salesperson asked if I need help. I would just say that I was only looking.
Then later if a normal salesperson asked to help me. I would let him sell me the product and get the commission.

This isn't Hate. I just choose the salesperson who is normal and not abnormal.

It's my money and I should be free to spend it any way that I want.

why wouldnt you want "a gay" as you put it touching your food? what would the difference be. or are you going to tell me a study came out proving that gay people carry more germs?

[Gareth]

Al Fatiha, I don't see why touching your food is such a big deal if there was a gay chef. However they fall short from God's standards, however we all do in a lot of regards. I still believe that sexual activity between members of the same sex is a sin before God though I'm not going to go back on this one. However if they do not have sexual activity, then they are showing a will to follow God's commandments and I think that is commendable.

As for commission, why would you reward one person, and reject the other. Even though I don't agree with it, I think we should reach out to these people as friends instead of marginalising them. I'd be interested in hearing how you check if they are gay also.

[Debater69]

no they shouldnt, create a seperate school to teach religion to those children on their own time. their should be a national school program and national schools without religion. religion is something the parents should commit themselves to teaching their kids.

I agree, some churches already do this: it's called sunday school or catechism class.

[ciaranxavier]

I agree, some churches already do this: it's called sunday school or catechism class.

which is what should be done. children go to school to learn the skills needed to get through life. and religion is not a skill needed to get through life. if a parent wishes their kid to be religious then they should teach them about that religion in the home or in their church. not in our schools.

[Al Fatiha]

why wouldnt you want "a gay" as you put it touching your food? what would the difference be. or are you going to tell me a study came out proving that gay people carry more germs?Hepatitis is spread by not washing your hands after contact with fecal material.

Gays have anal sex. So how do I know that a homo who is serving my food didn't just have a fudge packing session with another gay and is contaminating my food.

Why take the risk and end up in the hospital?

[Gareth]

They have very high hygiene procedures in restaraunts.

[Al Fatiha]

I'd be interested in hearing how you check if they are gay also.
In my post I used the word "obviously" gay.

You know, swishing around, limp wristed, talking with a gay lisp.

[miriya]

I have a lispss now

[Gareth]

I thought in Islam it was only the sexual contact that was the sin? Am I correct? If homosexuals are in love and abstain from sex isn't that acceptable?

[Phædrus]

In my post I used the word "obviously" gay.

You know, swishing around, limp wristed, talking with a gay lisp.

Wow, way to go with a stereotype. I've known several gay people, and none of them were limp wristed, none of them had a "gay lisp," and only one "swished."

And as for gay waiters, how do you know that a straight waiter hasn't just finished having anal with his girlfriend and didn't wash his hand? Sounds like discrimination to me. It's just like if you have a black waiter and ask for a white one.

[Al Fatiha]

It's just like if you have a black waiter and ask for a white one.No. it's like you have an abnormal waiter and you want a normal one.

[Al Fatiha]

I thought in Islam it was only the sexual contact that was the sin? Am I correct? If homosexuals are in love and abstain from sex isn't that acceptable?
Face it Gareth, they are gay because they are having perverted sex, and have a one-way ticket to HELL!

[miriya]

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn in Jericho and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"

The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

Al, you act alot like this priest here

[Don melQuiades]

If I were the manager of the restaurant I would simply refuse to serve you, and that would be that.

[Al Fatiha]

If I were the manager of the restaurant I would simply refuse to serve you, and that would be that.I have done it more than once and never had a problem getting a normal waiter.

[miriya]

I have done it more than once and never had a problem getting a normal waiter.

I bet they spit in your food

[Al Fatiha]

Hepatitis is spread by not washing your hands after contact with fecal material.

Gays have anal sex. So how do I know that a homo who is serving my food didn't just have a fudge packing session with another gay and is contaminating my food.

Why take the risk and end up in the hospital?This post just got me another infaction from the mod Enver Hoxha.

I really don't see what is wrong with it?

Why is he picking on me?

About a week age Enver Hoxha PMed me and said he ws going to get me banned.

Is that fair?

Why doesn't he just debate the issues like everyone else and quit trying to play god.

[ciaranxavier]

This post just got me another infaction from the mod Enver Hoxha.

I really don't see what is wrong with it?

Why is he picking on me?

About a week age Enver Hoxha PMed me and said he ws going to get me banned.

Is that fair?

Why doesn't he just debate the issues like everyone else and quit trying to play god.

So how do I know that a homo who is serving my food didn't just have a fudge packing session

this is whats wrong word yourself better take it up outside the thread as well.

[donquixote99]

Cia ran xavier, I think it is fascist to demand that all schools be state schools. Too controlling, based on an obvious anti-religion agenda. Your next step is to declare it child abuse if the parents teach kids religion, and take the kids away.

I mean, that logicly follows from the line you're taking.

I do not think it advisable for the state to fund religious content in schools

[ciaranxavier]

Cia ran xavier, I think it is fascist to demand that all schools be state schools. Too controlling, based on an obvious anti-religion agenda. Your next step is to declare it child abuse if the parents teach kids religion, and take the kids away.

I mean, that logicly follows from the line you're taking.

I do not think it advisable for the state to fund religious content in schools

no my next step is not to claim its child abuse to teach children religion. i believe that schools a place to learn basic life skills. and that the home is where religion should be taught. and if thats your logic its wrong. so who do you think should set the curriculam the church???? and im not anti religion you know nothing about me, but i dont think it should be in the schools.

[bay]

good grief al fatiha, what rock did you crawl out from under...

[Phædrus]

Cia ran xavier, I think it is fascist to demand that all schools be state schools. Too controlling, based on an obvious anti-religion agenda. Your next step is to declare it child abuse if the parents teach kids religion, and take the kids away.

I mean, that logicly follows from the line you're taking.

I do not think it advisable for the state to fund religious content in schools

Slippery slope argument, no es valida. Though I do think that schools don't necessarily need to be public. I also approve of home schooling, though not for religious reasons.

[Al Fatiha]

good grief al fatiha, what rock did you crawl out from under...
Why do you say that?

[donquixote99]

I'm hardly depending on an assumed and invented slippery slope, Phædrus, given the headline you wrote for this thread....

Ciaranxavier, I'm sure it's fustrating to feel one's position is being misstated by another. Oftentimes it seems quicker to me to elaborate 'for' someone, and then see where they correct me. But I'm sure that's an obnoxious practice that I should be more careful about.

Now, are you sure religion isn't 'life skills?' The 'Indian Ten Commandments' that were posted, for example, seem to be useful guides to living well....

If parents wanted to have their children attemd a school where such things were appropriately included and discussed, why would you object (if you would)?

[Phædrus]

I'm hardly depending on an assumed and invented slippery slope, Phædrus, given the headline you wrote for this thread....

I named this thread in fun of the "should gay people be allowed to raise kids" thread. I'm too much of a Libertarian to seriously consider denying as fundamental a right as the right to have kids.

[Gareth]

Face it Gareth, they are gay because they are having perverted sex, and have a one-way ticket to HELL!

Well yes they have in relation to sexual practices. That is why I said if they abstain.

Also, I will leave the authority to God to do this. I don't think you have the right to say who will or who will not go to hell.

If homosexuals can follow God's law in this regard, it is worthy of congratulation it is difficult. Following parts of God's law were difficult for me also.

[donquixote99]

Hepatitis is spread by not washing your hands after contact with fecal material.

Gays have anal sex. So how do I know that a homo who is serving my food didn't just have a fudge packing session with another gay and is contaminating my food.

Why take the risk and end up in the hospital?This post just got me another infaction from the mod Enver Hoxha.

I really don't see what is wrong with it?

Why is he picking on me?

About a week age Enver Hoxha PMed me and said he ws going to get me banned.

Is that fair?

Why doesn't he just debate the issues like everyone else and quit trying to play god.

Al Fatiha, particlarly thin rationalizations that are really just further expressions of hate are frowned upon. At most restaurants, everyone defecates from time to time, but practically no one has anal sex. You have reason to want good hygenic practicies from all food handlers, but no reason to single out gays. Meanwhile, using a term like fudge-packers is not exactly what you'd call 'objective description....' Basically, it's hate speach.

But your religious culture gives you permission to hate gays, and hate is sort of it's own reward, a self-reinforcing habit of the mind. And please don't claim you don't hate. That revulsion that makes you not want a server you identify as gay? That's hate, my friend.

Normal vs. abnormal? Hah! Everyone is nuts when you get to know them.

And it is FUNNY that you would chide anyone else for playing God....

Not that Enver doesn't have people he or she loves to hate too, I'm sure. You may be punching Enver''s buttons. Though I'm certainly not going to take your testimony on the matter at face value.

[ciaranxavier]

I'm hardly depending on an assumed and invented slippery slope, Phædrus, given the headline you wrote for this thread....

Ciaranxavier, I'm sure it's fustrating to feel one's position is being misstated by another. Oftentimes it seems quicker to me to elaborate 'for' someone, and then see where they correct me. But I'm sure that's an obnoxious practice that I should be more careful about.

Now, are you sure religion isn't 'life skills?' The 'Indian Ten Commandments' that were posted, for example, seem to be useful guides to living well....

If parents wanted to have their children attemd a school where such things were appropriately included and discussed, why would you object (if you would)?


Now, are you sure religion isn't 'life skills?'

it can teach life skills but it wont get them a job as a computer programmer or give them their math skills. anyways respect for others can be taught in a regular school without the influence of religion.

he 'Indian Ten Commandments' that were posted, for example, seem to be useful guides to living well....

there was never such a thing in the indian belief system as the "indian ten commandments". its a good example of how the christian religion has adapted other religions to make it more easy to force their own religion upon others.

If parents wanted to have their children attemd a school where such things were appropriately included and discussed, why would you object (if you would)?

no i believe that they should be taught to respect one another (the basic summary of the ten commandments) but you dont need religion to do so. religion only serves to give a biased opinion of the events taking part in history. i went to a catholic school and i never heard about the crusades until AFTER i left school. so again i will reiterate to you that i believe there should be NO religion in the schools and if parents wish for their children to learn about their religion they should take that up on their own time. a good example would be sunday school. send them there.

[Al Fatiha]

Also, I will leave the authority to God to do this. I don't think you have the right to say who will or who will not go to hell.


If you are a Christian than you believe in the Bible.

The Bible says homosexuality is and abomination. And that homos are going to Hell.

So do you believe that the Bible is the word of God?

[Gareth]

The Bible claims that homosexuality is a sin yes. However there is the possibility of repentance. And yes I do believe the Bible is the Word of God. I believe my job is to teach people what God can do for people, instead of teaching them that they have no place in Christianity as this is not true. There is plenty of space for homosexuals to participate in Christianity if they abstain from sex. It is the sexual relations and the lusting that takes place that is the difficulty.

[ciaranxavier]

ok guys theres a section for the gay stuff to be discussed. lets keep it out of a thread dedicated to religion in the schools please. go there Al if you want to discuss it.

[bay]

thank you Ciaran

[donquixote99]

there was never such a thing in the indian belief system as the "indian ten commandments". its a good example of how the christian religion has adapted other religions to make it more easy to force their own religion upon others.

First, I never said it was really Indian, it obviously isn't in form. I can't really say about the content. But I was just using it as good example of precepts that fit the description 'life skills,' at least as important as a marketable trade, I'd say.

Second, you've hit one my my pet peeves--the claim that people who attempt to promote values you don't share are trying to "force" them on others. Just where do you see Christians 'forcing' anything?

Which gets to, while sure, you don't have to use religion to teach interpersonal values and morals, why do you insist there's something wrong with doing so? Why can't this be done in privately-funded schools, available as an educational choice to parents? I'm for cholce. Choice is freedom.

Where do you get off banning religion except one day a week?

If you feel based on your experience that Catholic schools would be a poor choice, don't send your kids to one. Now if you don't have a choice, I'd regard that as a problem....

[ciaranxavier]

First, I never said it was really Indian, it obviously isn't in form. I can't really say about the content. But I was just using it as good example of precepts that fit the description 'life skills,' at least as important as a marketable trade, I'd say.

Second, you've hit one my my pet peeves--the claim that people who attempt to promote values you don't share are trying to "force" them on others. Just where do you see Christians 'forcing' anything?

Which gets to, while sure, you don't have to use religion to teach interpersonal values and morals, why do you insist there's something wrong with doing so? Why can't this be done in privately-funded schools, available as an educational choice to parents? I'm for cholce. Choice is freedom.

Where do you get off banning religion except one day a week?

If you feel based on your experience that Catholic schools would be a poor choice, don't send your kids to one. Now if you don't have a choice, I'd regard that as a problem....

Second, you've hit one my my pet peeves--the claim that people who attempt to promote values you don't share are trying to "force" them on others. Just where do you see Christians 'forcing' anything?

christians did force their religion upon the indians. is it a pet peeve for me to discuss that?

Which gets to, while sure, you don't have to use religion to teach interpersonal values and morals, why do you insist there's something wrong with doing so?

there isnt anything wrong with it outside of the schools. i never said its wrong to do at all, i just said schools are a place to learn life skills not religious ideologies.

Why can't this be done in privately-funded schools, available as an educational choice to parents?

because the curriculum set out for students should be the same country wide. and private schools lead to certain kids whos parents cant afford the private tuition and therefor they fail to receive the same level of education.

I'm for cholce. Choice is freedom.

they should have the choice to follow whatever religion they want. and they can do so outside of school can they not?



Where do you get off banning religion except one day a week?

your starting to put words in my mouth again and your portraying me how you like. i NEVER said ban any religion especially one day a week. i said that they can educate their kids on their own time and sunday school was an EXAMPLE, they can do it any of the week they choose too. stop putting words in my mouth


If you feel based on your experience that Catholic schools would be a poor choice, don't send your kids to one. Now if you don't have a choice, I'd regard that as a problem....

i said it was a biased education which happens in religious schools.

[donquixote99]

christians did force their religion upon the indians. is it a pet peeve for me to discuss that?

I'm sorry, it wasn't clear to me that this was a historical discussion.

because the curriculum set out for students should be the same country wide. and private schools lead to certain kids whos parents cant afford the private tuition and therefor they fail to receive the same level of education.

Ah. You want to ban private education altogether then? And if I as a parent fervently, sincerely believe what you want to teach my kid is wrong, I just have to stuff it? If I feel the local school is a chaos incompetenty run by government time-servers, I am to have no recourse?

Just asking questions--wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.

i said it was a biased education which happens in religious schools.

Let's say that's true. Is religious bias the only possible form of bias? If you and your friends are in charge of the schools, and determine the content of the One Countrywide Curriculum, how do I know you won't introduce other biases? In what way are you special, that you can be trusted with so much power, which you yourself insist others have abused, when they had it?

I think the best defense against bias in schools is educational diversity, while the existance of a single controlling power would practically guarantee it.

[ciaranxavier]

I'm sorry, it wasn't clear to me that this was a historical discussion.



Ah. You want to ban private education altogether then? And if I as a parent fervently, sincerely believe what you want to teach my kid is wrong, I just have to stuff it? If I feel the local school is a chaos incompetenty run by government time-servers, I am to have no recourse?

Just asking questions--wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.



Let's say that's true. Is religious bias the only possible form of bias? If you and your friends are in charge of the schools, and determine the content of the One Countrywide Curriculum, how do I know you won't introduce other biases? In what way are you special, that you can be trusted with so much power, which you yourself insist others have abused, when they had it?

I think the best defense against bias in schools is educational diversity, while the existance of a single controlling power would practically guarantee it.

I'm sorry, it wasn't clear to me that this was a historical discussion.


well the 10 commandments are a historic document.


Ah. You want to ban private education altogether then? And if I as a parent fervently, sincerely believe what you want to teach my kid is wrong, I just have to stuff it? If I feel the local school is a chaos incompetenty run by government time-servers, I am to have no recourse?

no you could take the issue up with the government. not put your kid into a better funded system. every child deserves the same education.


If you and your friends are in charge of the schools, and determine the content of the One Countrywide Curriculum, how do I know you won't introduce other biases? In what way are you special, that you can be trusted with so much power, which you yourself insist others have abused, when they had it?

democracy my friend its a beautiful thing. these people are elected to power so we give them the right to make those decisions. they have more of a chance of learning the truth from that then the biased opinion of a religious school.

I think the best defense against bias in schools is educational diversity, while the existance of a single controlling power would practically guarantee it.

one curriculum is the only way to ensure a fair education for all the students. you cant have on curriculum when your schools are sectarian.

[donquixote99]

Cian, let's say you have a child who is bright as a whip. Would it fair to bore that child to death forcing them to slog through a 'one size fits all' curriculum? If the bright child goes to the library and studies things on his own time, and so comes to know more that his classmates, has somehting unjust happened?

Shoud parents be allowed to have their own books or media resources in the home? Might give their kids an unfair advantage, after all....

Did you even read the Kurt Vonnegut short story "Harrison Bergeron (http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html)?" Never mind, you wouldn't like it.

[Segep]

Considering Al Fatiha's latest homophobic hate rant, I'm inclined to say no. If Al Fatiha is any indication of the average religious person I would class them in with the Nazis. Of course, his particular brand of hate speech isn't the norm in average Christians or even Muslims, but we must take into account the fact that many children who grow up in extremely religious households are bigoted and superstitious.

What's your take?



Al is not representative of any religious person I know personally, and almost every person I know is religious to a certain degree. Of course I make it a point not to involve anyone like him in my personal life.

Al just wasn't raised properly, is all. Civilized people talk shit behind each other's backs, not to their face. :D

[Segep]

I think it's bigotry to stereotype religious people as being intolerant, hateful fundementalists. Religion can likewise be a force for moral progress. The successful anti-slavery movements in Britain and the US sprang from religious motivations. The accomplishments of the religious working for civil rights, peace, and social advancement compare favorably to those of leftist revolutionaries, I would say.

'Good will to all' goes a long way, I'd say. Indeed, it's lack is almost irredeemable, whether one is 'god-minded' or not.

Very well said. :) I would go a step further and say that religious leaders working for civil and social rights ARE revolutionaries in their own rights.

[Segep]

their should be a national school program and national schools without religion.

There already are, at least in the U.S. Though they aren't really national, as they're controlled by each state.

I have no problem with faith-based education, and I think it compares favorably to public education (and, truth be told, probably in most cases surpasses public education entirely in its quality). However, it shouldn't be publicly funded unless a way can be figured out to fund any number of different faith-based schools equally. I can't see a practical way for it to be done. However, if we spent a lot less money on war and lining the pockets of the already wealthy, we'd have a lot more money to spend on education of all kinds. IMO.

[Segep]

Did you even read the Kurt Vonnegut short story "Harrison Bergeron (http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html)?"

My favorite is Cat's Cradle. :)

[Viv]

Al is not representative of any religious person I know personally, and almost every person I know is religious to a certain degree. Of course I make it a point not to involve anyone like him in my personal life.

Al just wasn't raised properly, is all. Civilized people talk shit behind each other's backs, not to their face. :D

This may be my new quote of the week...:D

[ciaranxavier]

Cian, let's say you have a child who is bright as a whip. Would it fair to bore that child to death forcing them to slog through a 'one size fits all' curriculum? If the bright child goes to the library and studies things on his own time, and so comes to know more that his classmates, has somehting unjust happened?

Shoud parents be allowed to have their own books or media resources in the home? Might give their kids an unfair advantage, after all....

Did you even read the Kurt Vonnegut short story "Harrison Bergeron (http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html)?" Never mind, you wouldn't like it.

Would it fair to bore that child to death forcing them to slog through a 'one size fits all' curriculum? If the bright child goes to the library and studies things on his own time, and so comes to know more that his classmates, has somehting unjust happened?

why would studying on their own time be unjust. i fail to see where the hell your off relations are going? i never said a kid studying and learning on his own time would be a bad thing. i said that every kid should have the same chance to learn the same thing in school and be free of religious bias.

Shoud parents be allowed to have their own books or media resources in the home? Might give their kids an unfair advantage, after all....

again where did i say it would be wrong for kids to further their education on their own time? you seem to love putting words in peoples mouths to suit your agenda.

Did you even read the Kurt Vonnegut short story "Harrison Bergeron (http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html)?" Never mind, you wouldn't like it

i wouldnt like it?? first you put words in my mouth now your making assumptions about my character. your a class act. wait no your not. and i dont see the relation between your story and what im talking about. i have no problem with kids learning more then others. but when they go to school every kid should have the same oppurtunity to a fair education. which fails to happen when the schools are divided by religion.

[Don melQuiades]

Kids should have the same basic minimum opportunity.

However, if a parent feels that he or she can superscede this level for the child, even if it includes sending them to a religious institution or homeschooling them with a religious slant, it should be the parent's perogative.

[donquixote99]

Ciaran, I am actually not just playing a silly game trying to make you look bad. The fact is, your positions as expressed prompt me to probe. You are placing great value on equality and fair access to resources; I was wondering to what lengths you would go in trying to maximize these values. The measures you've already suggested seemed to me to go pretty far, sacrificing a lot of diversity and free choice in favor of standardization and equality.

I certainly sorry you find my inqueries offensive and think ill of me. I'll leave you alone from now on.

[ciaranxavier]

Ciaran, I am actually not just playing a silly game trying to make you look bad. The fact is, your positions as expressed prompt me to probe. You are placing great value on equality and fair access to resources; I was wondering to what lengths you would go in trying to maximize these values. The measures you've already suggested seemed to me to go pretty far, sacrificing a lot of diversity and free choice in favor of standardization and equality.

I certainly sorry you find my inqueries offensive and think ill of me. I'll leave you alone from now on.

i have no problem with questions its when you warp my words im fine with criticism. but the things you say im saying i dont say.

[donquixote99]

Whatever.

[ciaranxavier]

Whatever.

well its true. i say.

one curriculum is the only way to ensure a fair education for all the students. you cant have on curriculum when your schools are sectarian.

you take it for.

Shoud parents be allowed to have their own books or media resources in the home? Might give their kids an unfair advantage, after all....


i do believe it is a misrepresentation of what im saying and if your not meaning to do it please be more careful as i dont enjoy you taking my words out of context to suit your argument.

[donquixote99]

Actually, the item you quoted was more a response the following comment of yours:

no you could take the issue up with the government. not put your kid into a better funded system. every child deserves the same education.

Just wanted to know how far you would go to enforce sameness, so I asked a question to elicit that information. Instead I get whining, and suggestions that I am 'not class.'

How did you get to be a SUPER moderator, anyway?

[ciaranxavier]

Actually, the item you quoted was more a response the following comment of yours:



Just wanted to know how far you would go to enforce sameness, so I asked a question to elicit that information. Instead I get whining, and suggestions that I am 'not class.'

How did you get to be a SUPER moderator, anyway?

i dont know how i got to be super moderator its not my problem. and how is saying that there should be one curriculum nation wide so every child gets the same chance in school warped to meaning that there should be no learning on ones own time? its illogical and a complete misrepresentation of what i was saying. and im not whining im asking you to explain how the hell you come to these fargone conclusions? you are the one whining and attempting to make cheap shots.

[donquixote99]

I apologise for all inadvertant offense given.