10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

[quirk]

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related

[Enver]

Great video.

[Gareth]

Flawed video in several respects.

In relation to the amputee situation? On their website it says to "experiment". This shows complete ignorance for one of the teachings of Christianity, Richard Dawkins does this also in the God Delusion (yes I've read it). Do not put the Lord your God to the test. (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=74328743)

As for Torah on stoning. "Whoever has not sinned can cast the first stone". (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=74328743) Humans rendered themselves incapable of carrying out the death penalty due to their iniquities according to the Gospel. Again, this proves that the creator of this video does not understand that scripture.

As for starvation. Believe it or not starvation is caused during human greed. However, I believe God does give Christians power to get out to Africa and to other impoverished regions of the world and to lend a hand and help. I plan to head out and work for a missionary organisation, or to even work with the Anglican Church in this regard in Ireland. People often think that the Lord is indeed gone, and this is very easy to think. However He has given us His Holy Spirit for those who accept it, and it is crucial that we accept Jesus Christ and be born again of water and the Spirit (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=74329056) so that we can carry out God's will.

[Enver]

The lyrics of Dumb All Over, a song by Frank Zappa.

Whoever we are
Wherever we're from
We shoulda noticed by now
Our behavior is dumb
And if our chances
Expect to improve
It's gonna take a lot more
Than tryin' to remove
The other race
Or the other whatever
From the face
Of the planet altogether

They call it the earth
Which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right
'cause we behave the same...
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over,
Yes we are
Dumb all over,
Near 'n far
Dumb all over,
Black 'n white
People, we is not wrapped tight

Nurds on the left
Nurds on the right
Religous fanatics
On the air every night
Sayin' the bible
Tells the story
Makes the details
Sound real gory
'bout what to do
If the geeks over there
Don't believe in the book
We got over here

You can't run a race
Without no feet
'n pretty soon
There won't be no street
For dummies to jog on
Or doggies to dog on
Religous fanatics
Can make it be all gone
(i mean it won't blow up
'n disappear
It'll just look ugly
For a thousand years...)

You can't run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state

To arms! to arms!
Hooray! that's great
Two legs ain't bad
Unless there's a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (get down!)
Not his, not hers, (but what the hey?)
The good book says:
("it gotta be that way!")
But their book says:
"revenge the crusades...
With whips 'n chains
'n hand grenades..."
Two arms? two arms?
Have another and another
Our god says:
"there ain't no other!"
Our god says
"it's all okay!"
Our god says
"this is the way!"

It says in the book:
"burn 'n destroy...
'n repent, 'n redeem
'n revenge, 'n deploy
'n rumble thee forth
To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
'cause they don't go for what's in the book
'n that makes 'em bad
So verily we must choppeth them up
And stompeth them down
Or rent a nice french bomb
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again
For temples in which to praise our god
("cause he can really take care of business!")

And when his humble tv servant
With humble white hair
And humble glasses
And a nice brown suit
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls
Tells us our god says
It's okay to do this stuff
Then we gotta do it,
'cause if we don't do it,
We ain't gwine up to hebbin!
(depending on which book you're using at the
Time...can't use theirs... it don't work
...it's all lies...gotta use mine...)
Ain't that right?
That's what they say
Every night...
Every day...
Hey, we can't really be dumb
If we're just following god's orders
Hey, let's get serious...
God knows what he's doin'
He wrote this book here
An' the book says:
He made us all to be just like him,"
So...
If we're dumb...
Then god is dumb...
(an' maybe even a little ugly on the side)

[Enver]

In relation to the amputee situation? On their website it says to "experiment". This shows complete ignorance for one of the teachings of Christianity, Richard Dawkins does this also in the God Delusion (yes I've read it). Do not put the Lord your God to the test. (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=74328743)

Ah, darn it, we should have thought of that clause that God rather cleverly included :rolleyes:. How about actually addressing the questions? Do you believe people can be healed by divine intervention brought on by prayer, and why doesn't this apply to amputees?

As for Torah on stoning. "Whoever has not sinned can cast the first stone". (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=74328743) Humans rendered themselves incapable of carrying out the death penalty due to their iniquities according to the Gospel. Again, this proves that the creator of this video does not understand that scripture.

Certain parts of the Old Testament are some of the most violent, sadistic, masochist, pornographic material ever written. Care to explain why Jehovah sent two female bears to tear 42 children limb from limb for laughing at the prophet Elisha?

As for starvation. Believe it or not starvation is caused during human greed. However, I believe God does give Christians power to get out to Africa and to other impoverished regions of the world and to lend a hand and help. I plan to head out and work for a missionary organisation, or to even work with the Anglican Church in this regard in Ireland. People often think that the Lord is indeed gone, and this is very easy to think. However He has given us His Holy Spirit for those who accept it, and it is crucial that we accept Jesus Christ and be born again of water and the Spirit (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=74329056) so that we can carry out God's will.

You're right: starvation is, for the most part, man made.

That's because there is no God and there never was.

[quirk]

On the issue of amputees and putting God to the test I dont think that is a sufficient answer. Yes you could say the author of this video is indeed putting him to the test but what about the many amputees who are not. Whats the excuse for favouring them less than cancer sufferers etc when giving out healing and miracles?

[bay]

It's not God per se, but the universe. we all have light and goodness and dark and evil in us. which do we choose to feed? our thoughts go out to the universe even if they are unspoken...negative thoughts become roadblocks and keep us from having what we want most in life...including good health, love, happiness,

every thought we put out there plants a negative seed or a positive one.

I'm inclined to go with the beatles on most matters of life, let it be, let it be, there will be an answer, let it be.

it's not about what God does or doesn't do to us or does or doesn't allow to happen, whether you are a christian or pagan or anythign in between. its' what we do to ourselves.

JHMO... of course my opinion and a dollar won't buy me a cup of coffee anymore....

[Gareth]

Ah, darn it, we should have thought of that clause that God rather cleverly included :rolleyes:. How about actually addressing the questions? Do you believe people can be healed by divine intervention brought on by prayer, and why doesn't this apply to amputees?


Good point, I see the thinking caps are on Enver. I will address your questions. People are healed through the medical system, and this is why God has made us to be rational beings. In the Bible it refers to medical progresses in the region of Gilead (on the eastern bank of the Jordan where the Golan Heights are today) and it advocates the use of medicinal methods for healings and other things. This reminds me of the story where a man climbs a tree during a flood, and when a man comes to rescue him says "No I'm waiting for God", however I would believe God has brought that man to save him in the first instance. It's not quite as simple as that. However I do believe in exceptional cases this can happen, however if someone comes to offer medical assistance, accept it, and allow God to work through the medical staff.


Certain parts of the Old Testament are some of the most violent, sadistic, masochist, pornographic material ever written. Care to explain why Jehovah sent two female bears to tear 42 children limb from limb for laughing at the prophet Elisha?

You have no idea how much this topic has come up. As for the Old Testament being "pornographic" I assume you mean in relation to Lot and his daughters? The Bible also includes the stories of characters to demonstrate how we should not act and we are meant to take their mistakes and look about reforming our lives. It is a literary style often used in the Old Testament. I don't see why the Bible shouldn't refer to adult issues, the Bible is for everyone not just for children. This is why I'm glad that Craig Gross has taken up the XXXChurch.com (http://www.xxxchurch.com) ministry.

As for Elisha and the she bears. Now Elisha was in Bethel. If you had actually read the Bible before that moment. What do we know about Bethel? Bethel was a town of the worship of Ba'al, and King Jeroboam of Israel had placed several idols of Ba'al in that town. These children were taught to hate Jews, and in mocking Elisha. They were a threat to his life. You also have to look at the Hebrew, the word is na'al which means youths, not children.

Please consult below link:
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/read/elisha_and_the_lads_of_bethel

Edit: also it says 42 of the boys. This indicates that there was a greater number. God was clearly saving the life of His prophet Elisha.


You're right: starvation is, for the most part, man made.

That's because there is no God and there never was.

So you say.

[bay]

"Truth resides in every human
heart, and one has to search for
it there, and to be guided by
truth as one sees it.
But no one has a right to coerce
others to act according to
his own view of truth. "
~ Edmund Burke (1729 1797)

[Gareth]

I'm not coercing anyone. I'm merely answering questions.

[Fascist]

Why doesn't God perform miracles on amputees?

No one knows for sure that he hasn't, just as no one knows for sure that he has cured others.



Why are there so many starving people in our world?

Drought, bad farming practices, corrupt governance, poor stewardship of the land, among many other reasons, most of which could be solved by man himself.



Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people?

He doesn't, no one is truly innocent in God's eyes.



Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

The Bible isn't a science book, most of the examples in the video were figurative writing. There is a lot of symbolism and allegory in the bible.



Why is god such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?

I don't believe the case was made that it is.



Why do bad things happen to good people?

These things are the wages of sin. The wages of sin are distributed in arbitrary fashion, not by the will of God. Man let sin into the world, and once in the world, sin and suffering afflicted and continues to afflict man according to chance and the will of the devil in cooperation with men -- not the will of God.



Why didn't any of Jesus miracles leave behind any evidence?

They did, the Church.



How do you explain the fact that Jesus never appeared to you?

I don't. Why should I be able to? God appears where he wants to, I can't control where he chooses to appear.



Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?

So that he can impart his grace to you. Why did he choose that manner to impart his grace, who knows?



Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?

Assuming that statistic is true, I'd guess it's because being Christian doesn't change the fact that you are still a fallible human.

[ciaranxavier]

Why doesn't God perform miracles on amputees?

No one knows for sure that he hasn't, just as no one knows for sure that he has cured others.



Why are there so many starving people in our world?

Drought, bad farming practices, corrupt governance, poor stewardship of the land, among many other reasons, most of which could be solved by man himself.



Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people?

He doesn't, no one is truly innocent in God's eyes.



Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

The Bible isn't a science book, most of the examples in the video were figurative writing. There is a lot of symbolism and allegory in the bible.



Why is god such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?

I don't believe the case was made that it is.



Why do bad things happen to good people?

These things are the wages of sin. The wages of sin are distributed in arbitrary fashion, not by the will of God. Man let sin into the world, and once in the world, sin and suffering afflicted and continues to afflict man according to chance and the will of the devil in cooperation with men -- not the will of God.



Why didn't any of Jesus miracles leave behind any evidence?

They did, the Church.



How do you explain the fact that Jesus never appeared to you?

I don't. Why should I be able to? God appears where he wants to, I can't control where he chooses to appear.



Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?

So that he can impart his grace to you. Why did he choose that manner to impart his grace, who knows?



Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?

Assuming that statistic is true, I'd guess it's because being Christian doesn't change the fact that you are still a fallible human.

No one knows for sure that he hasn't, just as no one knows for sure that he has cured others.

im sure if he had by now there wouldve been some small shred of evidence. but there isnt so people are pretty sure he hasnt.


Drought, bad farming practices, corrupt governance, poor stewardship of the land, among many other reasons, most of which could be solved by man himself.

could be solved by man. but "god" could solve our problems even quicker with one of his miracles.


He doesn't, no one is truly innocent in God's eyes.


so everyones a criminal in gods eyes?

The Bible isn't a science book, most of the examples in the video were figurative writing. There is a lot of symbolism and allegory in the bible.

and a lot of fiction.

These things are the wages of sin. The wages of sin are distributed in arbitrary fashion, not by the will of God. Man let sin into the world, and once in the world, sin and suffering afflicted and continues to afflict man according to chance and the will of the devil in cooperation with men -- not the will of God.

easy way to cop out on explaining gods lack of intervention.

They did, the Church.

the church is not a miracle its an organization which has murdered thousands of people over its lifespan.


I don't. Why should I be able to? God appears where he wants to, I can't control where he chooses to appear.

or he hasnt and never will appear as he doesnt exist.

So that he can impart his grace to you. Why did he choose that manner to impart his grace, who knows?


whoever was writing the story called the bible put that in there thats probably why.

Assuming that statistic is true, I'd guess it's because being Christian doesn't change the fact that you are still a fallible human.

and it doesnt change the fact that marriage in the church isnt as holy a union its made out to be.

[miriya]

*picture removed*

[Gareth]

Agh, miriya, please do not show pictures defaming the Bible. If you want to debate, debate the text openly here.

[miriya]

simple point being, we are talking about a old book here, that were writen by people who belived every animal lived close to noras house.

the bible is not to be taken at face value, liseen to what says and it spirt now its words, like the simple lesson, love you neaibor

[Al Fatiha]

hate speech is not tolerated.

[Gareth]

As for Noahs Ark there are several theories behind this, my own being that there were far less species at the time, and many of them would have been common ancestors of the ones on the Ark, just as there are many breeds of dogs, there are many breeds of cameloids such as llamas. It's not always so simplex as people seem to make it out to be.

And Al, advocating the stoning of homosexuals is really just out of order. If you wish to make people turn to a given religion there is a way of evangelism, I personally think Jesus' form was far more tolerant than what has come of stonings to homosexuals. Maybe these people can change? Maybe these people can repent of their sins and start afresh. This is my view. The Gospel is hope, not misery.

[miriya]

I see you didnt understand the story

[Gareth]

That the Bible is not to be taken at face value or?

[miriya]

As for Noahs Ark there are several theories behind this, my own being that there were far less species at the time, and many of them would have been common ancestors of the ones on the Ark, just as there are many breeds of dogs, there are many breeds of cameloids such as llamas. It's not always so simplex as people seem to make it out to be.

Are you saying the wompbat and pladapus all lived in the middleeast at one time???

look, sure there might have been a flood in the midleeast, but I dont think it covered the world

[miriya]

That the Bible is not to be taken at face value or?

No dont take it a face value, Paul hated women does that mean all real christian should? ask yourself what would jesus do

[Gareth]

Are you saying the wompbat and pladapus all lived in the middleeast at one time???

look, sure there might have been a flood in the midleeast, but I dont think it covered the world

No, not even the Bible suggests that they all lived in the Middle East. The Bible doesn't even suggest that Noah himself brought all the animals to that location. Jewish midrash suggests that God brought the animals there, and Noah gathered them in.

[Al Fatiha]

No dont take it a face value, Paul hated women does that mean all real christian should? ask yourself what would jesus doPaul hated women?

[Gareth]

No dont take it a face value, Paul hated women does that mean all real christian should? ask yourself what would jesus do

How does Paul hate women? Not by any means. Many of those who followed him in the Acts were women. Women even served as preachers in some cases.



After this Paul* left Athens and went to Corinth. 2There he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all Jews to leave Rome. Paul* went to see them, 3and, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them, and they worked together—by trade they were tentmakers. 4Every sabbath he would argue in the synagogue and would try to convince Jews and Greeks.

Women working with men in evangelism? Paul tolerated this.


26He began to speak boldly in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained the Way of God to him more accurately. 27And when he wished to cross over to Achaia, the believers* encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him.

[Viv]

Tolerated...

[Gareth]

Yes tolerated and even facilitated women preachers in other extra-Biblical texts such as the Acts of Paul and Theccla. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Paul_and_Thecla#Feminist.3F) Theccla is revered as a saint in many churches.

[miriya]

Corinthians 14:34—36

[Gareth]

which Corinthians? 1st or 2nd?

[miriya]

first

[Gareth]

http://www.gotquestions.org/women-silent-church.html

Interesting commentary on this ^

[miriya]

You think it helps that it the word of god that says that women are less then men :P

[Gareth]

No that is not true. The Word of God prescribes different roles for men and women. If you even look to Paul's work which you criticise so heavily, he even argues for the equality of men and women.


Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man or man independent of woman. 12For just as woman came from man, so man comes through woman; but all things come from God.

[miriya]

Paul was a show man, nothing more in my eye, he was doing what he could to get christianty set up, wrote abut thinks that would get people behind him

[BlackBaron]

Paul hated women?

Welcome to the West Al.

I dont understand how you Muslims can blame its present evils on Christianity.

[Gareth]

If Paul was making this all up as a show man, how come when I look to the similar references section for 1 Cor 14, I see references to the books of Acts, Numbers, Psalms, Matthew, Hebrews, 1 Peter, John, Isaiah, and Genesis? All different authors all related to in his points?

Any theologian will tell you that this was a letter teaching the Corinthians back to the basics as they had lost the Christian way of life.

For God is a God not of disorder but of peace

and they had also fought over the Holy Communion, the Church was divided in Corinth. Hence Paul wrote 2 letters to them.


And so, brothers and sisters,* I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but rather as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for solid food. Even now you are still not ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For as long as there is jealousy and quarrelling among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving according to human inclinations? 4For when one says, ‘I belong to Paul’, and another, ‘I belong to Apollos’, are you not merely human?

[BlackBaron]

Paul was a show man, nothing more in my eye, he was doing what he could to get christianty set up, wrote abut thinks that would get people behind him

Uh Miriya have you actually sat down and read the Bible?

It's not exactly "consumer friendly" (unlike la-la neo-paganism and new age waffle) and therefore by the fact that it shaped whole civilizations....

Well that says something doesnt it?

[miriya]

yes I have read the bible, hard not to when you are turning away from being bron christian, and the feact that I have a christian wife and familie inlaw

andif you want to talk deeper meaning the the bible, then I dont care for most of it progeths who say they know it best

Paul did what he did to make people turn to it.

ad she the bible isnt user freindly unless they believe themself holy, they it is they hammer. why do you think that the norse were ever turned, because the rulers saw the book as a tool for control, like any church leader.

Follow the spirt of the book, insted of those that want to use it, to stone homosexuals keep women slave to men and such

[Gareth]

miriya, the evidence seems to suggest that Paul was for the most part referring back to older scriptures, and his texts were only letters to Christian communities to lead them to a more godly life. That's what his writings were, letters. That's what their intentions were at the start.

[Al Fatiha]

I dont understand how you Muslims can blame its present evils on Christianity.Where have I done this?

[BlackBaron]

Where have I done this?

Forgive me.

You personally have not done this yet I have met Muslims who fail to distinguish between traditional Christian societies and the present day west.

[miriya]

miriya, the evidence seems to suggest that Paul was for the most part referring back to older scriptures, and his texts were only letters to Christian communities to lead them to a more godly life. That's what his writings were, letters. That's what their intentions were at the start.

which is the problem, letters are made religieon

[Viv]

You think it helps that it the word of god that says that women are less then men :P

God being a male, in that male-created text.

[Gareth]

There is female imagery of God in parts of the Bible as well. God is neither male or female. "I am that I am". Putting human constructs onto God as a definite is impossible. You cannot morph God to what you want.


First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by human will, but men and women moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.