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Thoba
07-16-2008, 11:33 AM
Mansur al-Hallaj spoke the truth and the people who said they were Muslims killed him for it in the most terrible way. Jesus too spoke the truth and was killed for it by those who said they were Jews. The Christian Church, those who say they have understood Jesus have killed many many "heretics" for speaking the truth. Every time people come and speak the truth it seems the world hates them and persecutes them. The organised religions, those that pretend to know best, seem to be the worst offenders.

God is what It is.

Someone said: “Ibn Muqri recites the Koran correctly.”

Rumi said: Yes, he recites the form of the Koran correctly, but he has no knowledge of its meaning. This is proven by the fact that when he is questioned for its meaning, he cannot answer. He recites blindly. He is like a man who holds an old, tattered sable in his hand; he is offered a newer, finer sable, but he refuses it. So we can see that he doesn’t know what sable really is. Someone told him that this is sable, and he blindly accepted it.

It is like children playing with walnuts. Offer them the nut itself, or the oil of the walnut, and they will refuse it, saying, “The walnut is what we spin on the table. This doesn’t spin.” God’s treasuries are many, and God’s sciences are many. If he recites this Koran with knowledge, why does he reject the other eternal Koran?

I once explained to a Koran-teacher: The Koran says, “If the sea were ink for the Words of my Lord, the sea would be spent before the Words of my Lord are spent.” Now, with fifty drams of ink one can copy the whole of this Koran. Therefore, the Koran is only a symbol of God’s knowledge and all the knowledge belonging to God.

An apothecary puts a pinch of medicine in a piece of paper. You wouldn’t say, “The whole of the apothecary’s shop is in this paper.” That would be foolishness. After all, in the time of Moses and Jesus and the other prophets, the Koran existed. God’s speech existed, but it was not in Arabic. I explained this to the Koranteacher in this way, but I could see that it made no impression so I let him go.

It is related that during the time of the Prophet anyone who knew one Sura by heart, or half a Sura, was called a great person and pointed out, “They have a Sura by heart,” since in that day they devoured the Koran. To devour a loaf of bread, or two loafs, is certainly a great accomplishment. But people who put bread in their mouths without chewing it and spit it out again can devour thousands of tons in that way.

UShadItcoming
07-16-2008, 05:22 PM
I find your speaking in parables to be less than helpful. I can understand the messages if I spend the time on them but I fear that most people don't. If you have something to say I think your time is more wisely spent if you just say it in everyday English.

I'm interested in what kind of a God you visualize. If it's a god in the common sense of christianity who is all-knowing and can be summoned up with prayer then my opinion is it is nothing but bullshit. If it's some kind of a surreal imaginary thing in your mind then perhaps it can make some sense to me. Providing you are even interested in trying to discuss it further.

Also: Are you serious about your location? Does it have some significance or was it just something you have dreamed up?

Thoba
07-16-2008, 07:30 PM
You shouldn't assume I'm trying to be helpful lol Maybe I came to provoke you not to help you and only time will tell. God is the God of Spinoza and Einstein and all the mystics and the saints down the ages. I have not imagined It, as a carbon based ape I cannot even begin to really. It is the One that inspired all Holy Books all Science and all Human Progress.

Jesus said he spoke in parables so that the wicked would stay blind. Perhaps he thought if they knew the Truth and were not blind they would be able to fool people better. Perhaps, but I'm not sure because I never met the man.

Your location is the same as mine UShadItcoming. The Local Bubble is a cavity in the interstellar medium of the Orion Arm of the Milky Way. It is about 300 light years wide. It is the remains "Geminga", a pulsar in the constellation Gemini. Our planet and Solar System has been travelling through the Local Bubble for the last five to ten million years.

ciaranxavier
07-17-2008, 01:45 AM
I find your speaking in parables to be less than helpful. I can understand the messages if I spend the time on them but I fear that most people don't. If you have something to say I think your time is more wisely spent if you just say it in everyday English.

I'm interested in what kind of a God you visualize. If it's a god in the common sense of christianity who is all-knowing and can be summoned up with prayer then my opinion is it is nothing but bullshit. If it's some kind of a surreal imaginary thing in your mind then perhaps it can make some sense to me. Providing you are even interested in trying to discuss it further.

Also: Are you serious about your location? Does it have some significance or was it just something you have dreamed up?

If you have something to say I think your time is more wisely spent if you just say it in everyday English.

i think he should post in whatever way hes comfortable, provided hes not threatening or insulting others.

UShadItcoming
07-17-2008, 03:23 AM
If you have something to say I think your time is more wisely spent if you just say it in everyday English. i think he should post in whatever way hes comfortable, provided hes not threatening or insulting others.

Make up your mind.

ciaranxavier
07-17-2008, 03:24 AM
Make up your mind.

what do you mean?

UShadItcoming
07-17-2008, 03:38 AM
what do you mean?

Learn to use quote function and stop wasting my time by trying to confuse what you have said and what I have said. Final warning. There will be no answers coming from me until you 'do' behave.

cx please!

ciaranxavier
07-17-2008, 03:54 AM
not using quote function, you told him to post in a way he doesnt want to. i addressed that part of your useless post because i didnt want him to feel like hes allowed to be told what to do by someone who doesnt have the authority to do so. hes new and i want him to feel welcome. now back on topic. please.

Thoba
07-17-2008, 04:38 AM
hes new and i want him to feel welcome.

Thanks ciaranxavier that's appreciated, I think maybe in his own way though UShadItcoming was actually trying to be helpful to me.

UShadItcoming
07-17-2008, 04:47 AM
Thanks ciaranxavier that's appreciated, I think maybe in his own way though UShadItcoming was actually trying to be helpful to me.

Yes Thoba, I was trying to be helpful and kind to you. You will find that I am a very agreeable fellow if I'm treated with respect. Some people have no idea what respect means and hence they don't get treated nice. It's an immaturity thing withe them and the best way to help them is with tough love. Ya gotta love the kids but ya gotta take them out behind the woodshed once in a while and warm their bottoms for them.

UShadItcoming
07-17-2008, 04:53 AM
You shouldn't assume I'm trying to be helpful lol Maybe I came to provoke you not to help you and only time will tell. God is the God of Spinoza and Einstein and all the mystics and the saints down the ages. I have not imagined It, as a carbon based ape I cannot even begin to really. It is the One that inspired all Holy Books all Science and all Human Progress.

Jesus said he spoke in parables so that the wicked would stay blind. Perhaps he thought if they knew the Truth and were not blind they would be able to fool people better. Perhaps, but I'm not sure because I never met the man.

Your location is the same as mine UShadItcoming. The Local Bubble is a cavity in the interstellar medium of the Orion Arm of the Milky Way. It is about 300 light years wide. It is the remains "Geminga", a pulsar in the constellation Gemini. Our planet and Solar System has been travelling through the Local Bubble for the last five to ten million years.

I'm so happy to hear that we are living close by each other. I'll try to send you a personal message but you may not receive it for a few light years. ON the other hand I could ask god if he'll hand deliver it and in that case you will get it in 2 hours and 27 minutes from now.

Give or take an hour depending on what time zone you are living in. Take two aspirins and cal me in the morning.

ciaranxavier
07-17-2008, 06:16 PM
Thanks ciaranxavier that's appreciated, I think maybe in his own way though UShadItcoming was actually trying to be helpful to me.

maybe he was, either way you post in whatever way your most comfortable and have fun.

Thoba
07-17-2008, 08:12 PM
ON the other hand I could ask god if he'll hand deliver it and in that case you will get it in 2 hours and 27 minutes from now.


I am a little shocked to learn you have a personal relationship with a male god that has hands. He sounds almost human lol