South Ossetia War (merged threads)

[quirk]

Russia is orchestrating attempts to create "an illusion of war" aimed at derailing increasing international efforts to revive the peace process, Temur Iakobashvili, the Georgian state minister for reintegration, said on August 4.

He said that recent tensions in South Ossetia, combined with the Abkhaz side's refusal to take part in talks, were designed to delay the renewal of the peace process.

"All these are being done in order to derail the peace process in which the international community is becoming increasingly involved," Iakobashvili said.

He said that "old tricks" used by Moscow to stall the process were becoming less effective, "so now attempts are underway to artificially fuel tensions."

"Actions are being undertaken to create an illusion of large-scale armed conflict, as if war is immenent," he continued. "And the most regrettable thing in this situation is that the Russian Foreign Ministry is obviously orchestrating and facilitating this process. Yesterday they issued a statement, which was in fact a pre-announcement of [possible] war in advance."

Iakobashvili was referring to the Russian Foreign Ministry's August 3 statement in which it said: "The threat of large-scale military actions between Georgia and South Ossetia is becoming more real."

The Georgian state minister also said that the Abkhaz side's refusal to take part in a meeting with the UN Secretary General's Group of Friends was also part of this, as he put it, "tactic of playing for time" and an attempt to stall the peace process.

Abkhaz leader Sergey Bagapsh said on August 3 that Sokhumi would not take part in a meeting with the Group of Friends in Berlin in August, citing recent tensions in the South Ossetian conflict zone. "We will watch how events develop in South Ossetia and if the situation gets better we may revise our decision," Bagapsh added.

Iakobashvili said that citing the situation in South Ossetia was just "a pretext" for Sokhumi and Moscow.

Authorities in breakaway South Ossetia said six people were killed by sniper fire and shelling in Tskhinvali and nearby Ossetian villages late on August 1 and overnight on August 2. About 15 people were injured on the South Ossetian side; the Georgian side said one policeman and six civilians were injured as a result of shelling of Georgian villages in the conflict zone.

Authorities of the breakaway region said that they had started "the evacuation" of children and women from Tskhinvali and nearby Ossetian villages following the most intense violent flare-up in years.

It was reported on August 3 that over 500 women and children were sent to Russia's North Ossetian Republic. Yuri Morozov, the breakaway region's prime minister, said that more had been sent on August 4, bringing the total number of children evacuated close to 2,000.

"North Ossetia alone may be incapable of handling such an influx, so Eduard Kokoity [the South Ossetian secessionist leader] is now exploring the option of sending children to other Russian federal republics in the North Caucasus," Morozov said in remarks posted on the South Ossetian Press and Information Committee website.

Ermak Dzansolov, deputy prime minister of Russia's North Ossetian Republic, told Interfax news agency on August 3 that the influx was not an evacuation. Sending children to North Ossetia was part of a pre-arranged summer-camp programme, he explained.

Source: Agencies
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2008/08/04/10032.shtml

[North Pole Resident]

..........BREAKING NEWS.............


Georgia starts storming South Ossetian capital despite ceasefire

Firing resumed in the Georgian-Ossetian conflict zone. Georgian troops one-sidedly breached the ceasefire declared by both sides several hours ago.

Approximately at 11:30 p.m. Moscow time fire was opened from heavy artillery from the side of the Georgian villages of Ergneti, Nikozi against the city of Tskhinval, the Defense Ministry of South Ossetia announced on Thursday. A REGNUM correspondent reports that Georgian troops have started storming the city.

To remind, several hours ago, the Georgian and the Ossetian side agreed on a ceasefire till tomorrow talks, as on Friday an emergent meeting of the Georgian State Secretary for Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili and Ossetian Deputy Prime Minister Boris Chochiyev.

http://www.regnum.ru/english/accidents/1037974.html



Georgia attacks S. Ossetia
Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:24:19 GMT

Georgia has attacked the region of South Ossetia and clashes are taking place near the regional capital Tskhinvali.

The statement was made by the Georgian Interior Ministry on Friday.

"An attack is underway, clashes are taking place outside Tskhinvali," Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utyashvili told AFP. This news came within hours of reports that Georgia and South Ossetia had agreed to meet Friday for talks.

According to officials, up to 12 people were killed and more than 20 injured during Thursday's clashes. "Tskhinvali is being shot at by mortar and heavy weapons from the Georgian villages of Nikozi and Ergneti and some houses are burning," RIA Novosti reported quoting an official speaking for Ossetia's Ministry of Emergency Situations.
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=65912&sectionid=351020606


From BBC:
Heavy fighting in South Ossetia

Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists have been exchanging heavy fire just hours after agreeing to a ceasefire and Russian-mediated talks. Fighting broke out after a brief lull in a day of heavy fighting in which 12 people were reportedly killed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7546639.stm


Mikheil Saakashvili lost his mind....


http://www.jnanews.com/Upload/26131814_Saakashvili_n_bush.jpg

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/georgia/images/georgia-area.gif

Mountainous South Ossetia, which is in Georgia, is separated from North Ossetia, which is in Russia, by the border between the two countries running high in the Caucasus. Much of the region lies more than 1000 metres above sea level.

South Ossetia is inhabited mostly by ethnic Ossetians who speak a language remotely related to Farsi. Georgians account for less than one-third of the population.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/country_profiles/3797729.stm

[quirk]

NPR is this not an internal Georgian matter in your opinion. If the Russians have any problems they should phone the Georgians and pass on any information of wrong doing.

[Nationalrevolutionär]

Here some pics from a German news site:
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34030.html#backToArticle=570883

Seems to be a serious conflict.

[quirk]

Seems to be a serious conflict.

Certainly seems to be and there is a high risk of it escalating. The Georgians have said if the Russians interfere then the two countries will be at war.

[North Pole Resident]

Moscow has sent troops to Georgia’s breakaway republic to aid peacekeepers stationed there. Russia's Defense Ministry says the fighting in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali continues. According to peacekeepers, the city is in ruins. South Ossetia is calling Georgia's attacks ‘genocide’ and ‘ethnic purges’.

Russian tanks are on their way to the capital of South Ossetia. It follows an appeal to Moscow for help after Georgian forces attacked the self-proclaimed republic. Tskhinvali has reportedly been completely destroyed by Georgian artillery fire. President Medvedev says Russia citizens in the area will be protected at all costs.
More than 10 Russian peacekeepers have been killed and about 30 wounded in clashes with Georgian forces, says Russia's Defence Ministry.

"It is my duty as president of the Russian Federation to protect the lives and dignity of Russian citizens, wherever they may be," Medvedev said on Friday.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/027bcpy3u58s5/610x.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07ji0ru2u1a2s/610x.jpg

14 hours ago: In this image, made from television, what Russian Channel 1 claims, is a convoy of Russian tanks moving towards Tskhinvali in the South Ossetian Georgian enclave on Friday, Aug. 8, 2008. Russia's Defense Ministry says it has sent reinforcements to its peacekeepers deployed to South Ossetia to help end bloodshed. Georgian officials confirmed that the Russian convoy had crossed the border and was advancing toward Tskhinvali. Georgia launched a massive attack Friday to regain control over South Ossetia, using heavy artillery, aircraft and armor. South Ossetian officials said at least 15 people were killed Friday and an unspecified number were wounded.

VIDEO -- http://russiatoday.com/news/news/28668/video


Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, currently on a visit to Beijing for the start of the Olympics, warned that Georgia's actions would meet a "response."

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said there is evidence of ethnic cleansing in villages in South Ossetia. He also said the latest developments in South Ossetia cast doubts over Georgia's consistency as a state and a responsible member of the international community.

Meanwhile, the head of Georgia’s national Security Council said: “If Russia indeed sent its troops to Georgian territory, it means we are at war with Russia.”

And according to the Georgian Interior Ministry, Russian aircraft have dropped two bombs near the Vaziani military airbase in a Tbilisi suburb. No injuries have been reported.
READ MORE -- http://russiatoday.com/news/news/28668

[North Pole Resident]

Medvedev vows punishment for killers of Russians in S.Ossetia

http://img.rian.ru/images/11225/88/112258834.jpg

MOSCOW, August 8 (RIA Novosti) - President Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday that Russia will punish those guilty of killing Russian nationals in South Ossetia, where Georgia has been waging an offensive to regain control of the breakaway region.
Speaking at an emergency Russian Security Council session focused on the violence, Medvedev said: "As president, I am obliged to protect the lives of our citizens wherever they may be. We will not let those guilty of killing our nationals evade punishment."

Medvedev said civilians are being killed in South Ossetia, most of whom have Russian citizenship. "Georgian troops in fact staged an act of aggression against Russian peacekeepers and civilians in South Ossetia last night."
Georgia launched a large-scale offensive against the breakaway province during the night, using tanks, combat aircraft, heavy artillery and infantry.
Separatist officials said the regional capital, Tskhinvali, has suffered major destruction, and reported 15 civilian deaths. Earlier reports also said several Russian peacekeepers were killed and wounded in a Georgian attack. Georgia said three troops were killed and about 17 wounded by separatist forces.

READ MORE -- http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080808/115900078.html

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08zS1pLgChggF/610x.jpg

President of Georgia Saakashvilli and Bush

[North Pole Resident]

NPR is this not an internal Georgian matter in your opinion. If the Russians have any problems they should phone the Georgians and pass on any information of wrong doing.

What? South Ossetia is not a part of Georgia.

[quirk]

What? South Ossetia is not a part of Georgia.

I agree but thought this would be your position as it is what you said about Chechnya which isnt part of Russia.

[Drycon]

i agree but thought this would be your position as it is what you said about chechnya which isnt part of russia.

zing!

[Drycon]

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said there is evidence of ethnic cleansing in villages in South Ossetia. He also said the latest developments in South Ossetia cast doubts over Georgia's consistency as a state and a responsible member of the international community.



Ohh the Irony :D

[Drycon]

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200607/r95462_288242.jpg

Putin must be as bad as the leader of georgia, as he is in a picture with bush.

[North Pole Resident]

MEDVEDEV: Georgia tramples international law, the killers of Russian citizens anywhere in the world are facing inevitable retribution.

http://kremlin.ru/dyn_images/img205023.jpg

China is firm on the Russian side. President Hu Jintao told this to Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.


MEDVEDEV: GEORGIA TRAMPLES INTERNATIONAL LAW

Medvedev believes the Georgian assault on South Ossetia represents a gross violation of agreements for Russian-led international peace-keeping in that independence-seeking territory.
President Medvedev has been speaking about this at an emergency sitting of his National Security Council:

The Russian military presence in South Ossetia complies with international law and is aimed at enforcing peace. As ever throughout its history, Russia guarantees security in the Caucasus. The action by Georgia flouts Russia’s mandate for peace-keeping and amounts to a blatant aggression. The victims are Russian peace-keepers and local people.

About a dozen Russian soldiers are killed. The attackers on them included members of what was supposed to act as a Georgian peace-keeping force. The civilian deaths are in the dozens and continue to mount. Most of these old folk, women and children were Russian passport holders.

Defending Russian nationals worldwide is a key part of my job as President. This is the line of action on the Russian side. The killers of Russian citizens anywhere in the world are facing inevitable retribution.
China is firm on the Russian side. President Hu Jintao told this to Prime Minister Vladimir Putin at a meeting with him in Beijing on Friday.

Mr Putin accused Georgia of violating the universal Olympic truce:

Ever since inception, the Olympic Games have been an occasion to hold fire in conflicts in all parts of the civilized world. Georgia has openly defied this accepted rule. Russia hopes the Commonwealth of Independent States will denounce the Georgian action and press for an immediate ceasefire in the conflict area.

http://www.ruvr.ru/main.php?lng=eng&q=30732&cid=56&p=08.08.2008



Georgian troops were even shooting at the Russian peacekeepers.

From BBC:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has accused Georgian troops of attacking Russian peacekeepers in South Ossieta.

VIDEO -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7549971.stm


America supports the terrorist state of Georgia.

[North Pole Resident]

Russia is orchestrating attempts to create "an illusion of war"........

Really?


S.Ossetia says over 1,000 dead after Georgian attack

21:45 | 08/ 08/ 2008


http://img.rian.ru/images/11588/60/115886019.jpg

The evacuation from the Georgian-Ossetian conflict zone started overnight on August 2, after Georgian forces began intensive shelling and sniping of Tskhinvali’s residential districts, which led to the seriously aggravated situation in the breakaway region of South Ossetia.


MOSCOW, August 8 (RIA Novosti) - Over 1,000 civilians have been killed as the result of an attack by Georgia on the capital of its breakaway republic of South Ossetia, the North Ossetian nationalities minister said Friday.
"According to the South Ossetian information and press committee, the number of fatalities is estimated, according to preliminary information, at over 1,000," Teimuraz Kasayev said.

North Ossetia is part of Russia.
Georgia launched a major offensive early Friday morning using tanks, combat aircraft, heavy artillery and infantry.
Earlier Colonel Igor Konashenkov, an aide to the commander of the Russian Ground Forces, said about 10 Russian peacekeepers were killed and 30 wounded in the conflict zone.
The Russian Transportation Ministry's press service said Friday that Moscow would cut air links with Tbilisi.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080808/115908220.html

[quirk]

The article was written last week in what was the build up to war and is certainly not saying what is happening now is only an illusion. I don't think there is anyone who would dispute that many people have been killed.

NPR, what is the attitude to this conflict amongst the average Russian? Also is their a feeling that the Ossetians provoked the conflict in order to draw Russia in as although I support their right to self determination (as I do for all peoples unlike the Russians) I feel this was the case?

[quirk]

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=DMp5UjGYv48&e

[quirk]

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqr-QdVQCxc

[Gareth]

Rolling tanks into Georgia is only inflaming tensions, not protecting anyone in my view anyway.

[World Agenda News]

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin accuses Georgia of genocide against the South Ossetian people, as fighting in the breakaway region intensifies, despite calls from Georgia for an immediate ceasefire.

More... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/europe/7552012.stm)

[Drycon]

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin accuses Georgia of genocide against the South Ossetian people, as fighting in the breakaway region intensifies, despite calls from Georgia for an immediate ceasefire.

More... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/europe/7552012.stm)

I dont even know what to say right now...

[bay]

it's a tinderbox.

[quirk]

I dont even know what to say right now...

I think hypocrite might be fitting.

[Gareth]

From my POV Russia have done nothing more than intensify an already bad situation.

[quirk]

From my POV Russia have done nothing more than intensify an already bad situation.

While there certainly is evidence to suggest that as Russia have been upping their troop levels in a provocative move for some time I feel that no side is guilty. The Georgians should recognise the Ossetians right to self determination and also I think there was a concious decision on the part of the Ossetians to provoke a conflict and draw the Russians in, thus achieving their goal in a shorter time frame. But in reality the information coming out of the regions is differing and unclear so I am not 100% sure what I think yet.

For those interested wikipedia have quite a detailed page on the war although wiki is not a great source for anything:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_War

[quirk]

I merged the threads on the conflict and it would be good if it could be continued to be discussed in this single thread.

[Drycon]

I think hypocrite might be fitting.


While I hope georgia has to let go of the area, I hope they give russia a real bloody nose first.

[quirk]

While I hope georgia has to let go of the area, I hope they give russia a real bloody nose first.

Doesn't seem that that is going to be the cases as the Georgians according to news sources are retreating:

Georgian troops retreat from S. Ossetia

The Georgian Interior Ministry says it has fully withdrawn troops from South Ossetia after a full-scale military response from Russia.

Witnesses in Georgian-controlled territory outside the de-facto South Ossetia border told Reuters news agency that a large convoy of Georgian military vehicles carrying soldiers and towing heavy artillery was traveling south out of the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali.

The reported withdrawal follows Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili's request for an immediate ceasefire with Russia.

On Saturday, Saakashvili told CNN, "We are willing to do ceasefire immediately, providing (that) the other side stops to shoot and to bomb."

Russia sent tanks into South Ossetia on Saturday after Georgia launched a military assault on the region on Thursday.

According to the Georgian Interior Ministry, Russian bombers hit the Georgian capital Tbilisi's military aircraft factory on Sunday as well as other targets within Georgian territory.

Russian Premier Vladimir Putin has called Georgia's attack on South Ossetia an act of "genocide".
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=66157&sectionid=351020606

[quirk]

Pravada are claiming that the conflict was US orchestrated. It's not the first time I have heard such a claim in the past few days and while I don't doubt the fact that the US would have no problem in doing so and also that they certainly didn't help with their pro Georgian rhetoric in recent year, I am still not sure if there is much truth in the claim. The reasons for war seem much more straight forward in this case however the claims are interesting.

War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA

By Pravda

09/08/08 "Pravda" -- The US administration urged for an immediate cease-fire in the conflict between Russia and Georgia over the unrecognized republic of South Ossetia.

In the meantime, Russian officials believe that it was the USA that orchestrated the current conflict. The chairman of the State Duma Committee for Security, Vladimir Vasilyev, believes that the current conflict is South Ossetia is very reminiscent to the wars in Iraq and Kosovo.

“The things that were happening in Kosovo, the things that were happening in Iraq – we are now following the same path. The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. South Ossetian defense officials used to make statements about imminent aggression from Georgia, but the latter denied everything, whereas the US Department of State released no comments on the matter. In essence, they have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals. They are responsible for this. The world community will learn about it,” the official said.

In the meantime, it became known that the Georgian troops conducted volley-fire cleansings of several South Ossetian settlements, where people’s houses were simply leveled.

“The number of victims with women, children and elderly people among them, can be counted in hundreds and even thousands,” a source from South Ossetian government in the capital of Tskhinvali said.

The head of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Sergei Lavrov, told reporters that Georgia’s actions in South Ossetia question its consistency as a state and as a responsible member of the international community, Interfax reports.

"Civilians, including women, children and elderly people, are dying in South Ossetia. In addition to that, Georgia conducts ethnic scouring in South Ossetian villages. The situation in South Ossetia continues to worsen every hour. Georgia uses military hardware and heavy arms against people. They shell residential quarters of Tskhinvali [the capital] and other settlements. They bomb the humanitarian convoys. The number of refugees continues to rise – the people try to save their lives, the lives of their children and relatives. A humanitarian catastrophe is gathering pace,” Russia’s Foreign Minister said.

The minister added that the Georgian administration ignored the appeal from the UN General Assembly to observe the Olympic truce during the Beijing Olympics.

The Georgian administration has found the use to its arms, which they have been purchasing during the recent several years,” Lavrov said. “The fact that Georgian peacemakers in the structure of joint peacemaking forces opened fire on their Russian comrades from one and the same contingent speaks for itself, I think,” the minister added.

“Now it is clear to us why Georgia never accepted Russia’s offer to sign a legally binding document not to use force for the regulation of the South Ossetian conflict,” Lavrov said. “Not so long ago, before the military actions in South Ossetia, Georgia’s President Saakashvili said that there was no point in such a document because Georgia would not use force against its people, as he said. It just so happens that it is using it,” Sergei Lavrov said.

Sergei Lavrov believes that the international community should stop turning a blind eye on Georgia’s active deals to purchase arms.

“We have repeatedly warned that the international community should not turn a blind eye on massive purchases of offensive arms, in which the Georgian administration has been involved during the recent two years,” Lavrov said. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20469.htm

[Drycon]

Well, the US could be involved we know how the govment likes proxy wars with russia, but I doubt it this time aswell, this seems like a clear cut case.

If while this war is going on, the US or Isreal attacks Iran, then I could belive the US started this to keep russia busy.

Also, I heard from a co-worker that 2 migs were shot down today, by vietnam era sam's. If this is true Russias ageing military just got dated and could cause problems for russia later with everyone knowing they have an aging airforce thats very easy to bring down.

[Shadow]

"Bodies are lying everywhere. It’s hell’

By Mark Franchetti, Moscow

10/08/08 "The Times" -- - OLEG KALCHAKEYEV sighed with relief as he watched the evening news on Thursday.

The reports told of renewed skir-mishes between separatist rebels seeking South Ossetian independence and the Georgian army – but also revealed that Mikhail Saakashvili, Georgia’s president, had declared a ceasefire. On Friday, so the young leader said, the two sides would sit down to negotiate.

Kalchakeyev, a car mechanic from Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital, told his son: “At least we’ll be able to watch the Olympics.”

Only a few hours later, however, shortly before dawn, Kalchakeyev woke up to the sound of explosions. He looked out of the window and saw the night sky over Tskhinvali filled with tracer fire. A barrage of Grad and Katyusha rockets followed.
It is unclear who first violated the ceasefire, but less than eight hours after Saakashvili’s pledge, the Georgian president had ordered his troops to retake South Ossetia by force.
“Suddenly there was a massive explosion which hit a house down the road from us,” said Kalchakeyev, who managed to flee across the border to Russia.

“Our windows shattered and I jumped for cover. I grabbed my son and wife and ran down to the basement, where I was joined by dozens of other civilians. The bombing only got worse. It was relentless and went on for hours. I never thought it would come to this – Georgians bombing us – not in my wildest imagination.”

As Vladimir Putin and George W Bush gathered with world leaders at the so-called bird’s nest stadium in Beijing for the Olympic opening ceremony, war was breaking out between Putin’s Russia and Bush’s client state Georgia.

Within hours, Russia sent its tanks rampaging into South Ossetia – even though it still officially recognises it as Georgian sovereign territory – and yesterday it ordered its air force to attack Georgian targets.

Apartment blocks were on fire in Gori, 15 miles from South Ossetia. Afterwards, a woman knelt in the street and screamed over the body of a dead man.

Another old woman covered in blood stared into the distance, and a man knelt by the road, his head in his hands.

“Why do I have to go through this again?” asked one woman, who said she had survived the second world war. “Why can’t we just live in peace?”

A wave of shock and apprehension gripped the region as survivors asked themselves whether Georgia was about to follow Chechnya into another Caucasian war.

Yesterday it emerged that Tskhinvali, a quiet, small town, had been all but destroyed by the initial Georgian attack on Friday.

As a barrage of artillery fell on its outskirts, Georgian tanks moved into the centre, where they were met with fierce resistance from South Ossetian separatist rebels.

“Georgian snipers are taking down anything that moves, even outside the town’s hospital, which is making it hard to deliver the wounded. They are not sparing anyone,” claimed a South Ossetian government spokesman.

The presidential palace of a region of only 70,000 inhabitants was in flames as intense hand-to-hand fighting broke out across the town. Ordinary apartment blocks were pounded as the remains of Georgian tanks struck by rocket-propelled grenades stood burning in the middle of the street.

“It’s hell,” said Zara Valiyeva, a local journalist trapped in the city. “Houses are being hit around us by rockets. We have no food but it’s too dangerous to go out.”

Battered Ladas delivered the wounded to the town’s hospital, which according to several reports was also badly hit.

“There were bodies lying everywhere, in the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars. There is hardly a single building left undamaged,” said Ludmilla, a woman who fled the town during the fighting.

“The city is burning,” stated a local resident, Oleg Repukhov, in a text message from a basement he took refuge in.

“Grad missiles are falling. They are taking the city. We are running out of ammunition. Where’s our f***ing help!!?” he wrote before the line went down.

“We never thought this could happen,” said Fatima Kochieva, a 47-year-old mother of two who lived on Tskhinvali’s southern outskirts, where the first Georgian artillery shells landed. “It all happened so quickly. Suddenly we were in the middle of heavy fighting. I saw our neighbour’s house get a direct hit. I took cover with the kids in the basement. It was terrifying.”

It took the Georgian army, which in the past few years has received US training and equipment, only a few hours to take the town.

Huge bomb craters cut through the streets. Blackened Soviet-era apartment block buildings were in flames; dead bodies of fighters and civilians lay on the ground amid the rubble. The remains of Georgian armed vehicles hit by grenades lay upside down close to the central square. Power and water supplies were cut off.

“The town is destroyed. There are many casualties, many wounded,” said Zaid Tsarnayev, a resident. “I was in the hospital on Friday where I saw many civilian wounded. The hospital was later destroyed by a Georgian jet.”

Russia’s response to the crisis was swift. Tank columns from the 58th army rolled across the border into South Ossetia. Backed by Russian fighter jets that pounded the Georgian army’s position, they quickly advanced towards Tskhinvali.

“Russia will not close its eyes on the deaths of Russian citizens in South Ossetia,” warned Dmitry Medvedev, the new Russian president.

Hundreds of volunteers from across the Caucasus – including scores of Cossacks – continued to cross into the disputed enclave to help the South Ossetian separatists.

Yesterday morning the Russians stepped up the pressure by sending in their Spetsnaz special forces. Clashes were reported in and around Tskhinvali but by midday the Russians had pushed the Georgians back, establishing a big military presence that Moscow will argue needs to stay for the fore-seeable future as a “peacekeeping” force.

Georgia’s interior ministry claimed that Russian warplanes had bombed a military base on the outskirts of the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, and three military bases on the Black Sea port of Poti. Russia denied the claims. Georgia also claimed to have shot down 10 Russian planes. The Russians said they had lost two.

It was when Russian jets attacked Gori, a small Georgian town to the south of the fighting, that the worst bloodshed occurred.

Richard Galpin of the BBC was the first foreign reporter on the scene. He said: “We saw the impact of the air strikes – buildings on fire. We could hear the Russian jets above us. In one strike the pilot missed the intended military base, instead hitting two apartment blocks.

“When we arrived, flames were pouring out of the buildings and people were still trapped inside. We saw injured civilians being pulled from the buildings.”

Roots of the conflict

Why is the Caucasus so important?

Because it is the only route for Central Asian oil supplies that does not cross Russia. Throughout the 19th century Russia fought wars to control the region and Moscow considers the area a key part of its sphere of influence.

Why does South Ossetia want to break away?

Most of its people speak their own language and feel closer to the Russians than the Georgians. They say they were absorbed into Georgia after the fall of the old Soviet Union. The 70,000 South Ossetians want independence – just like Kosovo, the breakaway Serbian province.

Why are the Georgians so upset about South Ossetia?

Because they see it as a Russian outpost funded largely from Moscow, and where most people carry Russian passports.

Why has Georgia’s president chosen to raise the issue now?

Because he thought everyone was focused on the Olympics and the Russians would hesitate to respond with force.

Why has Russia been willing to go to war?

The Kremlin is angry about western, particularly American military support for Georgia, its desire to join Nato and US plans for a missile defence shield in Europe.

Will anyone else intervene?

Unlikely, western armies are busy and the prospect of taking on Russia is not enticing.

What happens next?

The Georgians will back down looking like the bad guys. Both sides will go back to hating each other. Result: Russia 1, Georgia 0.



source:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20474.htm

[Shadow]

Russia expands Georgia blitz, deploys ships

Russia expands bombing blitz, deploys ships; Georgia reports ground assault

MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI
AP News

Aug 11, 2008 00:14 EST

Russia and Georgia clashed on land and at sea Sunday despite a Georgian cease-fire offer and claim of withdrawal from the separatist province of South Ossetia, officials from both countries said.

Georgian officials said Russian planes bombed an area near the Georgian capital's airport and Russian tanks moved from South Ossetia into Georgian territory, heading toward a strategic city before being turned back.

A Russian general said Georgian forces directed heavy fire at positions around Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, early Monday, even though Georgia had claimed to be withdrawing from the shattered city and called for a cease-fire.

"Active fighting has been going on in several zones," the Interfax news agency quoted Maj. Gen. Marat Kulakhmetov as saying. He is commander of the Russian peacekeeping contingent that has been in South Ossetia since 1992.

Russia also claimed to have sunk a Georgian boat that tried to attack Russian vessels in the Black Sea.

Russia appears determined to subdue diminutive, U.S.-backed Georgia despite international condemnation. Russia ignored a wave of calls to observe Georgia's cease-fire, saying it must first be assured that Georgian troops had indeed pulled back from South Ossetia.

President Bush on Monday sharply criticized Moscow's harsh military crackdown, saying the violence is unacceptable and Russia's response is disproportionate.

Bush, in an interview with NBC Sports, said, "I've expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response of Russia and that we strongly condemn the bombing outside of South Ossetia." He said he did so directly to Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and by phone to Russian President Dmitri Medvedev.

International envoys were trying to end the conflict before it spreads throughout the Caucasus, a region plagued by ethnic tensions. But it was unclear what inducements or pressure the envoys could bring to bear, or to what extent either side was truly sensitive to world opinion.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said one of the Russian raids on the airport area came a half hour before the arrival of the foreign ministers of France and Finland.

Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Temur Yakobashvili said Russian tanks tried to cross from South Ossetia into the territory of Georgia proper, but were turned back by Georgian forces. He said the tanks apparently were trying to approach Gori, but did not fire on the city of about 50,000, which sits on Georgia's only significant east-west highway.

An Associated Press photographer in Gori said early Monday that the city appeared quiet.

Russia also sent naval vessels to patrol off Georgia's Black Sea coast, but denied Sunday that the move was aimed at establishing a blockade.

The ITAR-Tass news agency quoted a Russian Defense Ministry spokesman as saying that Georgian missile boats twice tried to attack Russian ships, which fired back and sank one of the Georgian vessels.

South Ossetia broke away from Georgian control in 1992. Russia granted passports to most of its residents and the region's separatist leaders sought to absorb the region into Russia.

Georgia, whose troops have been trained by American soldiers, began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia overnight Friday, launching heavy rocket and artillery fire and air strikes that pounded the regional capital Tskhinvali. Georgia says it was responding to attacks by separatists.

In response, Russia launched massive artillery shelling and air attacks on Georgian troops.

Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said more than 2,000 people had been killed in South Ossetia since Friday, most of them Ossetians with Russian passports. The figures could not be independently confirmed.

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=290260

[Shadow]

Georgia:America admits it has few options for dealing with Russia-Georgia war


American diplomats have conceded that there are few options for dealing what President George W Bush has branded a 'dangerous escalation' by Russia and ruled out military intervention on behalf of Georgia.


More here:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2535563/Georgia-America-admits-it-has-few-options-for-dealing-with-Russia-Georgia-war.html

[quirk]

Well Georgia pulled out of Ossetia and the Russians have continued their attacks exposing that they where not simply there to defend Ossetia, which of course everyone knew. The comments from the US are interesting though no doubt they have their intelligence agencies on the ground. They shouldn't have armed Georgia and backed it with rhetoric as I think this played a part in given the Georgians a new confidence.

On another worrying note Abkhazia has now also entered the war against Georgia who seems to have way overplayed its hand and is heading for a serious defeat and the loss of these territories.

Abkhazia enters war with Georgia

Abkhazia has opened a new front in the Caucasus conflict by launching attacks on Georgian forces in support of neighboring South Ossetia.

Abkhazia's separatist leader Sergei Bagapsh announced Sunday that troops had begun a major military operation "in accordance with alliance obligations to South Ossetia" to oust Georgian troops from the mountainous Kodori Gorge, a strategic foothold in the independence-seeking Black Sea territory controlled by Georgian forces since 2006.

Bagapsh said around 1,000 special Abkhaz troops attacked Georgian positions using warplanes, multiple rocket launchers and artillery.

"Georgia still has time... The operation will enter the next phase as planned, and when it begins, you will know," he said, promising to create a "humanitarian corridor" to allow residents to flee the district.

On Sunday, Bagapsh signed a decree to impose martial law on several Abkhazian districts and declared a partial mobilization of military forces.

Georgia responded by accusing Moscow of masterminding and executing attacks on the Kodori Gorge, claiming that Russia had used its Black Sea fleet to transport around 4,000 troops to Abkhazia on Saturday night.

Georgia has also blamed the Russian military of attacking civilians in Chkhalta, the region's main administrative center where Georgia has installed an alternative pro-Tbilisi Abkhaz government.

Russian army spokesman Anatoly Nogovitsyn, however, told Interfax on Sunday that Russia did not want to "escalate the conflict", insisting that Moscow is "primarily interested in stabilization in Abkhazia".

Abkhazia -- which has enjoyed de facto independence since it drove Georgian forces out in 1993 -- is one of two independence-seeking regions of Georgia. The other is South Ossetia, where Georgian forces began full-scale military operations in an attempt to reassert control on Thursday.

The widening of fighting to the Kodori Gorge represents a further escalation of the conflict in the Caucasus region, where over 2,000 South Ossetians and at least 150 Georgian have so far been killed. http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=66249&sectionid=351020606


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VAZTpLYnkE&e
Russia has continued its attacks on Georgia, striking deep in the heart of Georgian territory.
On Monday, Russia planes blasted a radar facility on the outskirts of the capital, Tbilisi.
In Moscow, diplomatic efforts continue, as top Russian officials meet to discuss the fighting in South Ossetia.

[quirk]

One positive development which has come out of this whole mess is the withdrawal of the Georgian occupiers from Iraq. Seems there is hypocrisy on the part of all these nations and maybe Georgia is destined to get a taste of its own medicine and be occupied, or as they might refer to it "liberated".

Petraeus: US is Flying Georgian Troops into Battle Zone

Exclusive: Deborah Haynes, Baghdad

10/08/08 "The Times"---- - 'US aircraft have started to fly some of Georgia’s 2,000 troops in Iraq back home to join the fight in the breakaway province of South Ossetia, General David Petraeus, the top US commander in Iraq said toda

“The flights are ongoing to redeploy the elements of the Georgian contingent so that they can deal with the security issues in their country,” General Petraeus told The Times in an interview at his office inside Baghdad’s Green Zone.

READ MORE HERE.......... (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20475.htm)

[Shadow]

U.S. Evacuates 170 Americans From Georgia

More than 170 Americans have been evacuated from Georgia, the State Department
says.

***********

(Seems the US is being its hypocritical self again. Check bush's crticism about Russia for " over playing its response." :mad::hmmm: )


So now the world has another little "hot spot" to deal with .

[Shadow]

-- Georgian city of Gori falling to Russian military as territorial crisis spreads beyond breakaway region, Georgian officials say


(source: CNN breaking (online) news.

[greektzon]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3580136,00.html

For past seven years, Israeli companies have been helping Gerogian army to preparer for war against Russia through arms deals, training of infantry units and security advice .
The fighting which broke out over the weekend between Russia and Georgia has brought Israel's intensive involvement in the region into the limelight.
This involvement includes the sale of advanced weapons to Georgia and the training of the Georgian army's infantry forces.
The Defense Ministry held a special meeting Sunday to discuss the various arms deals held by Israelis in Georgia, but no change in policy has been announced as of yet.

"The subject is closely monitored," said sources in the Defense Ministry. "We are not operating in any way which may counter Israeli interests. We have turned down many requests involving arms sales to Georgia; and the ones which have been approves have been duly scrutinized. So far, we have placed no limitations on the sale of protective measures."

Israel began selling arms to Georgia about seven years ago following an initiative by Georgian citizens who immigrated to Israel and became businesspeople.
"They contacted defense industry officials and arms dealers and told them that Georgia had relatively large budgets and could be interested in purchasing Israeli weapons," says a source involved in arms exports.


The military cooperation between the countries developed swiftly. The fact that Georgia's defense minister, Davit Kezerashvili, is a former Israeli who is fluent in Hebrew contributed to this cooperation.
"His door was always open to the Israelis who came and offered his country arms systems made in Israel," the source said.
"Compared to countries in Eastern Europe, the deals in this country were conducted fast, mainly due to the defense minister's personal involvement."
Among the Israelis who took advantage of the opportunity and began doing business in Georgia were former Minister Roni Milo and his brother Shlomo, former director-general of the Military Industries, Brigadier-General (Res.) Gal Hirsch and Major-General (Res.) Yisrael Ziv.


Roni Milo conducted business in Georgia for Elbit Systems and the Military Industries, and with his help Israel's defense industries managed to sell to Georgia remote-piloted vehicles (RPVs), automatic turrets for armored vehicles, antiaircraft systems, communication systems, shells and rockets.
According to Israeli sources, Gal Hirsch gave the Georgian army advice on the establishment of elite units such as Sayeret Matkal and on rearmament, and gave various courses in the fields of combat intelligence and fighting in built-up areas.


'Don't anger the Russians'

The Israelis operating in Georgia attempted to convince the Israeli Aerospace Industries to sell various systems to the Georgian air force, but were turned down. The reason for the refusal was "special" relations created between the Aerospace Industries and Russia in terms of improving fighter jets produced in the former USSR and the fear that selling weapons to Georgia would anger the Russians and prompt them to cancel the deals.
Israelis' activity in Georgia and the deals they struck there were all authorized by the Defense Ministry.
Israel viewed Georgia as a friendly state to which there is no reason not to sell arms systems similar to those Israel exports to other countries in the world.


As the tension between Russia and Georgia grew, however, increasing voices were heard in Israel – particularly in the Foreign Ministry – calling on the Defense Ministry to be more selective in the approval of the deals with Georgia for fear that they would anger Russia.
"It was clear that too many unmistakable Israeli systems in the possesion of the Georgian army would be like a red cloth in the face of a raging bull as far as Russia is concerned," explained a source in the defense establishment.
For inctance, the Russians viewed the operation of the Elbit System's RPVs as a real provocation.


"It was clear that the Russians were angry," says a defense establishment source, "and that the interception of three of these RPVs in the past three months was an expression of this anger.
Not everyone in Israel understood the sensitive nerve Israel touched when it supplied such an advanced arms system to a country whose relations with Russia are highly tense."
In May it was eventually decide to approve future deals with Georgia only for the sale of non-offensive weapon systems, such as intelligence, communications and computer systems, and not to approve deals for the sale of rifles, aircraft, sells, etc.


A senior source in the Military Industry said Saturday that despite some reporters, the activity of Georgia's military industry was extremely limited.
"We conducted a small job for them several years ago," he said. "The rest of the deals remained on paper."
Dov Pikulin, one of the owners of the Authentico company specializing in trips and journeys to the area, says however that "the Israeli is the main investor in the Georgian economy. Everyone is there, directly or indirectly."


Georgian minister: Israel should be proud

"The Israelis should be proud of themselves for the Israeli training and education received by the Georgian soldiers," Georgian Minister Temur Yakobashvili said Saturday.
Yakobashvili is a Jew and is fluent in Hebrew. "We are now in a fight against the great Russia," he said, "and our hope is to receive assistance from the White House, because Georgia cannot survive on its own.
"It's important that the entire world understands that what is happening in Georgia now will affect the entire world order.
It's not just Georgia's business, but the entire world's business."
One of the Georgian parliament members did not settle Saturday for the call for American aid, urging Israel to help stop the Russian offensive as well: "We need help from the UN and from our friends, headed by the United States and Israel.
Today Georgia is in danger – tomorrow all the democratic countries in the region and in the entire world will be in danger too."

[greektzon]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3580522,00.html



Former Israeli ambassador to Georgia says 'it's a shame war broke out during one of country's most prosperous periods'. Adds: When I was growing up we always considered South Ossetia, Abkhazia to be part of Georgia.
"Georgian government officials used to tell me that they wanted to model their army after the IDF," former Israeli ambassador to Georgia Shabtai Zur told Ynet Sunday evening amid the country's bloody feud with Russia over the separatist region of South Ossetia.

The fighting which broke out over the weekend between Russia and Georgia has brought Israel's intensive involvement in the region into the limelight. This involvement includes the sale of advanced weapons to Georgia and the training of the Georgian army's infantry forces.
The Israeli Defense Ministry held a special meeting Sunday to discuss the various arms deals held by Israelis in Georgia, but no change in policy has been announced as of yet.
Zur, a candidate for mayor of Ashkelon in the upcoming municipal elections, explained that since Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili took office the country has seen advancements in various fields, specifically the enlistment of women to the army and the recruitment of reservists.

"In my opinion these developments are due in part to advice Georgia received from Israeli companies that operate there," Zur said, adding that the economic development in the country has attracted many Israeli businessmen.


'US intervention needed'

The former envoy said the ongoing tension between Georgia and the separatist provinces brought Israeli experts to the area.
"The private company of Brig.-Gen. (res.) Gal Hirsch (Galilee Division commander during the Second Lebanon War) has been operating in Georgia for some time now and is providing consultation to the Georgian army," he noted.
According to him, some 6,000 Jews currently live in Georgia, and most of them enjoy a relatively high economic status and rarely suffer from anti-Semitism.
"South Ossetia and Abkhazia were always considered a part of Georgia," Zur told Ynet.
"When I was a child we used to visit those regions, and to us they were always a part of our country.
It's a shame what is going on there now, especially during one of Georgia's more prosperous periods."

The former ambassador said some 150-200 Jews reside in the heavily-bombarded city of Gori. "Last night I spoke with three nurses who live there; they told me that they do not know if any Jews were among the victims," he said.
Zur said he hoped the US would intervene and "bring the parties to the negotiating table".

[greektzon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temuri_Yakobashvili

Temur Iakobashvili (Georgian: თემურ იაკობაშვილი, also transliterated as Temuri Yakobashvili) (born 1967) is a Georgian political scientist, diplomat and politician serving as State Minister for Reintegration since January 31, 2008.

Iakobashvili was born into a Georgian Jewish family in Tbilisi. He graduated from the Department of Physics at Tbilisi State University in 1984. He further attended Diplomatic Course at the universities of Oxford and Birmingham in the United Kingdom (1998), obtained the Yale University scholarship for the World Leaders’ Program (2002), and took international security courses at the John F. Kennedy School of Government in the United States (2003).[1]

From 1990 to 2001, he worked for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Georgia where he last served as the Director of the U.S., Canada and Latin America Department. He holds the rank of Envoy Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary. Iakobashvili has been active in the non-governmental sector, being a co-founder and member of the managing board of the Foreign Relations Council and the Atlantic Council of Georgia, a member of the board of the Georgian Institute of Public Affairs, and Executive Vice-President of the Georgian Foundation for Strategic and International Studies. He has authored several publications on national security, conflict management and foreign relations, and was a visiting scholar to the Center for the Silk Road Studies at the Uppsala University, Sweden, in 2006.[1]

On January 31, 2008, he was appointed by the President of Georgia Mikheil Saakashvili as State Minister for Reintegration, an office which had formerly been known as State Minister for Conflict Issues.
He is thus a chief negotiator on the Abkhazia and South Ossetia conflicts.[2] He is a proponent of a peaceful settlement of the secessionist conflicts and has called for "internationalization" of the currently Russian-dominated peacekeeping format.[3]

Iakobashvili is married to Yana Fremer and has two children.
Beyond Georgian and Hebrew, he is fluent in Russian and English.

[Drycon]

What shocks me is this, If this was the US attacking georgia, everyone would say it was for oil, but I guess the hate is blinding on this issue...

You guys do realize how important georgia is to the EU, its how the EU is weening itself off russian gas and oil.

Now russia has cut the country in half, and is blocking the caspian sea. Im willing to bet they blow the pipeline to punish the EU.

While Georgia should have not attacked, now that they are saying they want a truce, Russia should give it to them.

IF Russia takes control of the EU's oil flow, Nato should react militarly, Russia wont use nukes they know better.

[quirk]

Russian forces have taken a Georgian Interior Ministry building in the western city of Zugdidi amid an escalating conflict in the Caucasus region.

"The Russians have crossed the border and are now in control of Zugdidi," a reporter for Norwegian TV2 news channel said on Monday.

The arrival of the Russian troops came just after UN observers left the town, AFP quoted the reporter as saying.

"We saw Russian military trucks passing by. We saw hundreds of soldiers. There was a mix of soldiers from the regular army and soldiers that are supposed to be peacekeepers," he said.

This comes while Georgian authorities said Russian forces occupied the city of Gori, 76 kilometers west of Georgia's capital, Tbilisi.
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=66309&sectionid=351020606

[North Pole Resident]

US-sponsored Georgian War Crimes

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=AgqlyY5frZs

[Shadow]

Putin criticises U.S. over South Ossetia



Mon Aug 11, 2008 MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin criticised the United States on Monday, saying it had displayed a cynical Cold War mentality by supporting Georgia in the conflict over South Ossetia.

Putin, shown on state television speaking to officials, said the West had manipulated the truth about the war to present the Georgians as the victims rather than the aggressors.

Washington was hampering Moscow's efforts to find a way out of the conflict, he said.

"It is a shame that some of our partners are not helping us but, essentially, are hindering us," Putin said.

"The very scale of this cynicism is astonishing -- the attempt to turn white into black, black into white and to adeptly portray victims of aggression as aggressors and place the responsibility for the consequences of the aggression on the victims."

Putin said he was dismayed that the United States had used its military planes to transport Georgian troops home from Iraq.

A Georgian official said almost all of Georgia's 2,000-strong troop contingent in Iraq had returned although the United States has not confirmed that its planes flew them home.

"Almost all of them have been sent to the area close to the conflict zone," Nika Rurua of the Georgian parliament's defence committee told Reuters. Continued...

here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUKLB3465120080811

[Shadow]

WASHINGTON (AP) President Bush expresses concern about "dramatic and brutal escalation" of Russian force.



..Ho hum.:( plus he ain't in no position to talk now.

[Drycon]

WASHINGTON (AP) President Bush expresses concern about "dramatic and brutal escalation" of Russian force.



..Ho hum.:( plus he ain't in no position to talk now.


He is in a place to talk, the EU will want the US to do something, with the oil supply being cut off, Russia is playing Blackmail games with them. With US pretty much being the leader of Nato(The EU's Military for the most part) Its time Bush says somthing to russia.

[Shadow]

Russia Georgia War
Washington Risks Nuclear War by Miscalculation

By F William Engdahl

11/08/08 "Market Oracle" --- - The dramatic military attack by the military of the Republic of Georgia on South Ossetia in the last days has brought the world one major step closer to the ultimate horror of the Cold War era—a thermonuclear war between Russia and the United States—by miscalculation. What is playing out in the Caucasus is being reported in US media in an alarmingly misleading light, making Moscow appear the lone aggressor. The question is whether George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are encouraging the unstable Georgian President, Mikhail Saakashvili in order to force the next US President to back the NATO military agenda of the Bush Doctrine. This time Washington may have badly misjudged the possibilities, as it did in Iraq , but this time with possible nuclear consequences.

The underlying issue, as I stressed in my July 11 piece in this space, Georgien, Washington, Moskau: Atomarer geopolitischer Machtpoker , is the fact that since the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact in 1991 one after another former member as well as former states of the USSR have been coaxed and in many cases bribed with false promises by Washington into joining the counter organization, NATO.

Rather than initiate discussions after the 1991 dissolution of the Warsaw Pact about a systematic dissolution of NATO, Washington has systematically converted NATO into what can only be called the military vehicle of an American global imperial rule, linked by a network of military bases from Kosovo to Poland to Turkey to Iraq and Afghanistan . In 1999, former Warsaw Pact members Hungary , Poland and the Czech Republic joined NATO. Bulgaria , Estonia , Latvia , Lithuania , Romania , and Slovakia followed suit in March 2004. Now Washington is putting immense pressure on the EU members of NATO, especially Germany and France , that they vote in December to admit Georgia and Ukraine .

The roots of the conflict

The specific conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia and Abkhazia has its roots in the following. First, the Southern Ossetes , who until 1990 formed an autonomous region of the Georgian Soviet republic, seek to unite in one state with their co-ethnics in North Ossetia , an autonomous republic of the Russian Soviet republic and now the Russian Federation . There is an historically grounded Ossete fear of violent Georgian nationalism and the experience of Georgian hatred of ethnic minorities under then Georgian leader Zviad Gamsakhurdia, which the Ossetes see again under Georgian President, Mikhel Saakashvili. Saakashvili was brought to power with US financing and US covert regime change activities in December 2003 in what was called the Rose Revolution. Now the thorns of that rose are causing blood to spill.

Abkhazia and South Ossetia—the first a traditional Black Sea resort area, the second an impoverished, sparsely populated region that borders Russia to the north—each has its own language, culture, history. When the Soviet Union collapsed, both regions sought to separate themselves from Georgia in bloody conflicts - South Ossetia in 1990-1, Abkhazia in 1992-4.


Source :

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20489.htm

[Drycon]

Im sure the red text is aimed at me, but I dont need new outlets to understand the situation, as I follow the EU's and natos moves closely building up to this.

Georgia attacked, no question there, Russia responds with force, fair enough.

Georgia stops attacking, asks for a truce, Russia splits the country in half keeping the EU from the caspian sea to punish the EU for trying to ween itself from Russian energy. Its a conflict that is being used as an excuse for russia to get some pay back on the EU.

[Shadow]

the red text is not targetted at anyone. It is colored just to emphasize the points. ( this is NOT about YOU , drycon as honest, you are NOT the center of the universe :):))


The US has used oil in their political aggressions too.

Otherwise, you raise some valid points.


What do you suggest that bush do about this new crisis?? (that would turn it into a constructive outcome?? ) He does not have a record of any genuine successes in dealing with crisis , be they of his doing or not. Or might it just be smarter to let them solve their own problems. ??

[Drycon]

the red text is not targetted at anyone. It is colored just to emphasize the points. ( this is NOT about YOU , drycon as honest, you are NOT the center of the universe :):))


The US has used oil in their political aggressions too.

Otherwise, you raise some valid points.


What do you suggest that bush do about this new crisis?? (that would turn it into a constructive outcome?? ) He does not have a record of any genuine successes in dealing with crisis , be they of his doing or not. Or might it just be smarter to let them solve their own problems. ??

Well, if we let them solve their own problems, georgia will be a part of russia against their will, and the EU will continue to be blackmailed by russia energy.

[Gareth]

Shadow, the only US activity that happened was that they airlifted 4,000 Georgian troops from Iraq to their border.

[quirk]

Shadow, the only US activity that happened was that they airlifted 4,000 Georgian troops from Iraq to their border.

I don't think Shadow said that the US where involved in the conflict and although I agree that there doesn't seem to be evidence to suggest that they are it isn't something I would bank on. Where are they not involved and minipulating things behind the scenes? In fact looking at it from their imperialist point of view they should be.

Broadening the topic out a little: Is this the beginning or maybe the intensification of the new cold war?

[World Agenda News]

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev orders an end to Russian operations against Georgia, the Kremlin says.

More... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/europe/7555858.stm)

[greektzon]

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Folympia.gr&langpair=el|en&hl=el&ie=UTF8

Following the withdrawal of troops from the Georgians Ossetia becomes evident that the invasion had only intended to slaughter civilians.
Terrible testimonies of epizonton show organised plan of ethnic cleansing, and proschediasmeno ektelesmeno with unprecedented barbarity. The victims among the civilian population has exceeded his 2000 while refugees exceed 75000.

During the invasion by Georgian forces entopizan the krysfigeta civilians and exontonan with all possible means. Reached the point where flood waters with the krysfigeta that civilians be forced to surrender or be pnigoun. During the retreat, Georgians pagidefan with explosives in shelters or erichnan grenades!

It should be clear beyond any Western propaganda, that is NOT YPIRXE EMPLOKI Georgians and Russian troops in the territory of Ossetia. The purpose of the invasion was purely ethnic cleansing rather than battle with the Russians.

The same scene diadramatisthike within the territory of Georgia. Akrovolismeno Georgian artillery in the city Gkori, continued to contribute against civilians.
Rumors on the Russian invasion in the city etrepsan army and artillery in disorderly decline in Tbilisi. Άρα ούτε εκεί υπήρξε εμπλοκή. So there was no involvement.

The genocide apparently aimed at forcing Russia to invade in Georgian territory and give rise to NATO for retaliation.
Georgia is the "weak link" between Russia and NATO forces due to its geographical position.
: So the genocide had instigators and accomplices with names:

*
Dick Tseini. He said that the international community should not leave unanswered the challenge of Russians.
*
Μπερναρ Κουσνέρ. Bernard Kousner. At a time of the genocide he did visit in sympathy sfagea, carrying the support of EU

Vast is the responsibility of the Greek state. The first victims of genoktonou policy Saakasvili - Western was the ethnic cleansing of Greek emigrants.The Greek state did nothing to stop or even denounce it.
Once again, Greek governments are worthy accomplices in ethnic cleansing of peoples who are not serving the interests of world exousiasmoy.
Against the democratic - humanitarian sense of justice, should sometimes be held accountable along with the slaughterers of yesterday, today, tomorrow.

Here is the announcement of Pampontiakou Association "Argo"

With the same insidious and dirty way that governance Saakasvili stimulated the violation of homes and assaults against indigenous Hellenism in Georgia tsalapatise and the meaning of the Olympic truce with the military offensive in South Ossetia, at a time when everyone was ready to attend the opening of the Beijing Olympic Games.

H barbaric attack on civilians stochepse be driven from their homes, to achieve the "liberation" of the region by the indigenous population and replace with epoikous.
The tested scenario applied in a more "quiet" way against indigenous Hellenism in Georgia since the Second World War until today.
A Since 2004 denounced the policy Saakasvili for attacks and assassinations against the Greek population in Georgia and the violation of periousion by Georgian epoikous with tolerance and support of the Georgian authorities.

T Since 2005, symbolically on 13 June (the day that the 1949, also Georgian, Stalin exiled Hellenism from the region), held massive protest gatherings in front of the embassy and consulate of Georgia in Athens for the bloody events in Tsalka, which took Greek native country murders and systematic seizures of homes and estates.
Before the visit of Saakasvili Athena, in autumn 2007, addressed to the government, civic leadership and the leadership of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs who will ypodechontan letter-complaint about the incident, to bring the issue to the Georgian president, to demand respect for life and periousion of Greeks in the country, where at least 104,000 people were left less than 15,000.
and the remaining trapezosan, esfixan hands and xeprovodisan with filofroniseis and smiling as erapsan persons from early: next April the Georgian puppet would represent his country in the escort of Bucharest for membership in nato… in the lalistati other cases Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis: for the secession of Kosovo, for strong "NATO" Albania for new pyraflon in the Czech Republic and Poland, etc. (when not considered directly lives of Greeks and not even asked its opinion) has not found anything to indicate on killing tens of thousands of Greeks and Osetinon by the regime of Saakasvili.

Now that the Greek foreign ministry, with full alignment with the options Saakasvili the issue of Greek periousion aftonomitheis in Abkhazia, assisted in the dangerous operation of Hellenism in the Caucasus war of politics.
is not superfluous to underline that still has not prompted the immediate release and return of periousion us in the same territory of Georgia.
The historic homes and our eternal pedestals in the Caucasus and plundered off with avoulo observer elladiki the government. could at least do the following:
-- To take initiatives, repeatedly have suggested.
-- Order, even now, the insidious attack the regime Saakasvili in south Ossetia.
-- Aprakti instead to monitor the events, to announce mission humanitarian and medical assistance to Ossetia, where the northern part of thousands of Greeks living

Αθήνα, 09-08-2008 Athens 09-08-2008

P.S. Sorry for the bad English.

[Shadow]

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) Georgian security council says it is suing Russia for ethnic cleansing in international court.


(From: Yahoo breaking news.)

[Gareth]

Broadening the topic out a little: Is this the beginning or maybe the intensification of the new cold war?

That's what Russia want.

[greektzon]

Georgia and security experts have accused Russian state-sponsored hackers of breaking into Georgian government and commercial websites as part of a cyber war to supplement Russia's military operations in South Ossetia.

- Official websites hacked
- 'Cyber warfare campaign'
- Site moved

Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili's official website, as well as the websites of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Defence, the central government site and various commercial sites, have all been forced offline over the past week.
The Georgian Parliament website, parliament.ge, has been defaced by the "South Ossetia Hack Crew". The site's content has been replaced with images comparing Saakashvili to Adolf Hitler.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was forced to set up a blog on Google's Blogger service as a temporary site while it battled to resurrect its official homepage.
News site Civil.ge followed its lead, claiming its servers were under permanent attack.
Jart Armin, a researcher who publishes a blog tracking the movements of the Russian Business Network (RBN) - a group of state-sponsored hackers - called the flare-up a "full cyber siege of Georgia's cyber space" by the RBN.

Armin said Georgian internet servers were controlled by foreign attackers and internet traffic to them was being redirected to servers in Moscow.
At the time of writing, president.gov.ge, mfa.gov.ge and mod.gov.ge were back online but the central government site, government.gov.ge, was still down.
The President's site has been moved to US servers.
"A cyber warfare campaign by Russia is seriously disrupting many Georgian websites, including that of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs," the Georgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs wrote in a statement on its temporary blog.

The blog has allowed Georgia to spread information to mainstream media and the West, knowing it would be difficult for the hackers to target Google.
Security experts claim Georgia's websites were the subject of sustained "denial-of-service" attacks, which flood the target with visits in order to overload it and knock it offline.
Through Armin's RBN Exploit blog, Georgia warned people to use caution when surfing to its official sites, particularly those without any recent news, as they may be fraudulent.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4958/georgiahackwideweb470x3bw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Shadowserver Foundation, which describes itself as a "volunteer watchdog group of security professionals" who track online hacking, said it had witnessed multiple attacks on both Georgian government and commercial websites, such as news.ge, newsgeorgia.ru, tbilisiweb.info and apsny.ge.
"While this flurry of activity appears to coincide with recent events involving Russia and Georgia, we do not have solid information surrounding the who and the why," Shadowserver's Steven Adair said.

The President of Poland, Lech Kaczynski, weighed into the issue, saying Russia was blocking "Georgian internet portals" to supplement its "military aggression".
Kaczynski offered his own website to Georgia to aid in the "dissemination of information".
Russian nationalists were also blamed for a cyber attack on Estonia in April last year, which took out much of the country's internet infrastructure.

The attacks were sparked by the removal of a Soviet war memorial in Estonia's capital, Tallinn.
Websites for the country's government departments, banks, newspapers and other commercial operators were all forced offline.
Estonia is reportedly sending cyber defence advisers from its NATO Cyber Defence Centre - established after last year's attacks in Tallinn - to Georgia to share their knowledge on dealing with cyber warfare.

read more:http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/georgian-websites-forced-offline-in-cyber-war/2008/08/12/1218306848654.html

[quirk]

That's what Russia want.

Why on earth would they want that?

[Shadow]

***USATODAY.com Breaking News***
TBILISI, Georgia -- Georgia's president has agreed to a plan with Russia brokered by France to end fighting in his country.

[North Pole Resident]

August 12, 2008, 17:47

Fleeing from violence: more refugees to cross into Russia

Refugees from the fighting in South Ossetia are continuing to cross into Russia following the opening of a humanitarian corridor on Monday. 34,000 evacuees have already fled the conflict zone, while thousands continue to head for refugee camps in the neighbouring Russian Republic of North Ossetia.

Others would like to leave South Ossetia, but are unable to do so, as the gunfire continues in several districts.

Thousands expected

Alagir camp is the closest to the South Ossetian border. It is a place where refugees are being gathered and sent to Kabardino-Balkaria, Karachaevo-Cherkessia and Rostov-on-Don.

According to Kazbek Vasiev, head of the Alagir region’s administration, almost 1700 refugees have already found temporary shelter in the camp. Many people from North Ossetia are coming to check if any of their relatives are there.
More then 3,000 refugees are expected in the next couple of days. About a thousand of them are reported to be wounded.

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28874

VIDEO -- http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28874/video

[Gareth]

Why on earth would they want that?

They want to throw around their weight and cause division with those who would favour NATO because they want to regain their superpower status. It's exactly what they want.

[quirk]

They want to throw around their weight and cause division with those who would favour NATO because they want to regain their superpower status. It's exactly what they want.

Well I agree that they want to retain their status but this is antural for all imperialist countries and the US is exactly the same. Not only do both want to maintain their status but to expand it. At the same time I don't think either want a cold war as they would all like to have no competition and be allowed to expand unchallenged but this not being the cases, conflict is inevitable.

Now this has been building up for some time now and both sides are as bad as each other. The US has planned its missle shield and has moved into countries who were previously seen as in Russias sphere of influence. Now of course you will say they are entitled to do so as these countries don't belong to Russia but imagine what would happen if Russia did the same in Canada and Mexico and started building missle shields in these countries.

With the new economic power of China and its use of this power to garner influence throughout the world, especially Africa we may be in for a tri polar cold war in the near future and its the normal people who will suffer in their millions just as they currently do under capitalism/imperialism.

[quirk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkY0mawpIVc

[quirk]

Seems that things have escalated quite bit in this past few hours with Russian troops first moving forward in breech of the EU brokered ceasefire then sinking several Georgian ships. Both stories are on Al Jazeera and where witnessed by their reporters.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/2008813153517926662.html

[Shadow]

Superb posting, quirk. Thanks for the updates. Situation :; another hotspot in crisis. The Bear has been bitten awake .....

[Drycon]

Georgia was out of line this time, but I do think russia is going to far with this. They need to fall back to the pre 8/8/08 border imo.

[Shadow]

Georgia was out of line this time, but I do think russia is going to far with this.


agree. Over kill. ( sound familiar??? )

[quirk]

I think the message Russia is trying to send out is dont mess with us and we will stop when and only when we want to stop. These latest events are a clear breech of the ceasefire agreement by the Russians though no doubt they will give some excuse for doing so.

One of the things I found about this conflict was the bullshit was more transparent than usual. The Russians for example where saying they where not bombing Georgia and the world knew they where lying. The Russians knew we knew they where lying yet continued to tell lies anyway in the face of all the evidence.

[Drycon]

agree. Over kill. ( sound familiar??? )


No, but being you are racist against americans im sure this conflict will be our fault.

Bush is the devil, america planned this, 9/11 was an inside job, the elections are rigged, the us has to many guns and suv's, we want everyones oil, mccain is the anti christ. Have I just about covered it? or do we need to derail this thread some more?

[Shadow]

These latest events are a clear breech of the ceasefire agreement by the Russians though no doubt they will give some excuse for doing so.



they are not doing anything all that different from what the US has done in the past 8 yrs. That seems to be the nature of current politics and wars.

The scenario might be slightly different. as is the location and even the motives. But the bottom line is still POWER .

And yes, one can bring in the US into this as all one has to do is watch CNN and see what Condi and bushie have to say. Condi is off to France to discuss with Zarkowsy ( sp??) and then Georgia.


No, but being you are racist against americans im sure this conflict will be our fault.
Oh, stop the whining. Sheesh. !!!


Let's see how the bush US handles THIS crisis......seeing as how it is involved verbally and personally now. Now the US wants to "punish" Russia. (and isolate it) are the lines being drawn ??

[Drycon]

Oh, stop the whining. Sheesh. !!!





Your agenda is clear, I will not stop pointing out no matter how many times you try to cover it up. You hate all americans as you explained in a thread that convently went poof.

[ciaranxavier]

Your agenda is clear, I will not stop pointing out no matter how many times you try to cover it up. You hate all americans as you explained in a thread that convently went poof.

he deleted that thread because he was outvoted.

[Shadow]

he deleted that thread because he was outvoted.



off topic. (to both of you ):wall:

[Shadow]

Interesting perspective:

Putin Walks into a Trap

By Mike Whitney

13/08/08 "ICH" --- - The American-armed and trained Georgian army swarmed into South Ossetia last Thursday, killing an estimated 2,000 civilians, sending 40,000 South Ossetians fleeing over the Russian border, and destroying much of the capital, Tskhinvali. The attack was unprovoked and took place a full 24 hours before even ONE Russian soldier set foot in South Ossetia. Nevertheless, the vast majority of Americans still believe that the Russian army invaded Georgian territory first. The BBC, AP, NPR, the New York Times and the rest of the establishment media has consistently and deliberately misled its readers into believing that the violence in South Ossetia was initiated by the Kremlin. Let's be clear, it wasn't. In truth, there is NO dispute about the facts except among the people who rely the western press for their information. Despite its steady loss of credibility, the corporate media continues to operate as the propaganda-arm of the Pentagon.

Former Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev gave a good summary of events in an op-ed in Monday's Washington Post:

"For some time, relative calm was maintained in South Ossetia. The peacekeeping force composed of Russians, Georgians and Ossetians fulfilled its mission, and ordinary Ossetians and Georgians, who live close to each other, found at least some common ground....What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas....Mounting a military assault against innocents was a reckless decision whose tragic consequences, for thousands of people of different nationalities, are now clear. The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force. Georgian armed forces were trained by hundreds of U.S. instructors, and its sophisticated military equipment was bought in a number of countries. This, coupled with the promise of NATO membership, emboldened Georgian leaders into thinking that they could get away with a "blitzkrieg" in South Ossetia...Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against "small, defenseless Georgia" is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity." ("A Path to Peace in the Caucasus", Mikhail Gorbachev, Washington Post)

The question for Americans is whether they trust Mikhail Gorbachev more than the corporate media?

Russia deployed its tanks and troops to South Ossetia to save the lives of civilians and to reestablish the peace. Period. It has no interest in annexing the former-Soviet country or in expanding its present borders. Now that the Georgian army has been routed, Russian president Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin have expressed a willingness to settle the dispute through normal diplomatic channels at the United Nations.Neither leader is under any illusions about Washington's involvement in the hostilities. They know that Georgian President Mikail Saakashvili is an American stooge who came to power in a CIA-backed coup, the so-called "Rose Revolution", and would never order a major military operation without explicit instructions from his White House puppetmasters. Most likely, the orders to invade came directly from the office of the Vice President, Dick Cheney.

The Georgian army had no chance of winning a war with Russia or any intention of occupying the territory they captured. The real aim was to lure the Russian army into a trap. US planners hope to do what they did so skillfully in Afghanistan; lure their Russian prey into a long and bloody Chechnya-type fiasco that will pit their Russia troops against guerrilla forces armed and trained by US military and intelligence agencies. The war will be waged in the name of liberating Georgia from Russian imperialism and stopping Putin from achieving his alleged ambition to control critical western-owned pipelines around the Caspian Basin. Much of this "think tank" generated narrative has already appeared in the mainstream media or been articulated by American political elites. Meanwhile, the fighting in the Caucasus has diverted attention from the massive US naval armada that is presently sailing towards the Persian Gulf for the long-anticipated confrontation with Iran.

from here:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20508.htm

[Shadow]

Why Russia’s Response to Georgia was Right

By Sergei Lavrov

13/08/08 "Financial Times" - -- For some of those witnessing the fighting in the Caucasus over the past few days, the narrative is straightforward and easy. The plucky republic of Georgia, with just a few million citizens, was attacked by its giant eastern neighbour, Russia. Add to this all the stereotypes of the cold war era, and you are presented with a truly David and Goliath interpretation – with all its accompanying connotations of good and evil. While this version of events is being written in much of the western media, the facts present a different picture.

Let me be absolutely clear. This is not a conflict of Russia’s making; this is not a conflict of Russia’s choosing. There are no winners from this conflict. Hours before the Georgian invasion, Russia had been working to secure a United Nations Security Council statement calling for a renunciation of force by both Georgia and South Ossetians. The statement that could have averted bloodshed was blocked by western countries.

Last Friday, after the world’s leaders had arrived at the Beijing Olympics, Georgian troops launched an all-out assault on the region of South Ossetia, which has enjoyed de facto independence for more than 16 years. The majority of the region’s population are Russian citizens. Under the terms of the 1992 agreement to which Georgia is a party, they are afforded protection by a small number of Russian peacekeeping soldiers. The ground and air attack resulted in the killing of peacekeepers and the death of an estimated 1,600 civilians, creating a humanitarian disaster and leading to an exodus of 30,000 refugees. The Georgian regime refused to allow a humanitarian corridor to be established and bombarded a humanitarian convoy. There is also clear evidence of atrocities having been committed – so serious and systematic that they constitute acts of genocide.

There can be little surprise, therefore, that Russia responded to this unprovoked assault on its citizens by launching a military incursion into South Ossetia. No country in the world would idly stand by as its citizens are killed and driven from their homes.Russia repeatedly warned Tbilisi that it would protect its citizens by force if necessary, and its actions are entirely consistent with international law, including article 51 of the UN charter on the right of self-defence.

Russia has been entirely proportionate in its military response to Georgia’s attack on Russian citizens and peacekeepers. Russia’s tactical objective has been to force Georgian troops out of the region, which is off limits to them under international agreements. Despite Georgia’s assertion that it had imposed a unilateral ceasefire, Russian peacekeepers and supporting troops remained under continued attack – a fact confirmed by observers and journalists in the region. Russia had no choice but to target the military infrastructure outside the region being used to sustain the Georgian offensive. Russia’s response has been targeted, proportionate and legitimate.

Russia has been accused of using the conflict to try to topple the government and impose control over the country. This is palpable nonsense. Having established the safety of the region, the president has declared an end to military operations. Russia has no intention of annexing or occupying any part of Georgia and has again affirmed its respect for its sovereignty. Over the next few days, on the condition that Georgia refrains from military activity and keeps its forces out of the region, Russia will continue to take the diplomatic steps required to consolidate this temporary cessation of hostilities.

Mikheil Saakashvili, Georgia’s president, has stated that “unless we stop Russia, unless the whole world stops it, Russian tanks will go to any European capital tomorrow”, adding on a separate occasion that “it’s not about Georgia any more. It’s about America”. It is clear that Georgia wants this dispute to become something more than a short if bloody conflict in the region. For decision-makers in the Nato countries of the west, it would be worth considering whether in future you want the men and women of your armed services to be answerable to Mr Saakashvili’s declarations of war in the Caucasus.

Russia is a member of the Security Council, of the Group of Eight leading industrialised nations and partner with the west on issues as varied as the Middle East, Iran and North Korea. In keeping with its responsibilities as a world power and the guarantor of stability in the Caucasus, Russia will work to ensure a peaceful and lasting resolution to the situation in the region.

source:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20505.htm

[Shadow]

Georgian police begin returning to city of Gori as Russian forces leave, Georgia's Interior Ministry tells CNN.


(breaking news, CNN)


**********

and then there is :

The Arrogant Hypocrisy of the U.S. Government
August 12, 2008 in Iraq, Russia by Laurence Vance | 34 comments

Is there any government more hypocritical than the U.S. government? Has there ever been? The United States is considering punishing Russia for its military actions in Georgia by cancelling U.S. participation in an annual Russia-NATO naval exercise. Read the full story here. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice insists that “the Russians need to stop their military operations as they have apparently said that they will, but those military operations really do now need to stop because calm needs to be restored.”

Well, how about the United States stopping its military operations in Iraq so calm can be restored? The very idea that the U.S. government would seek to lecture Russia about its military actions in Georgia is ludicrous. Has Uncle Sam no shame about the genocide its military has unleashed in Iraq?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
source:http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/08/12/the-arrogant-hypocrisy-of-the-us-government/


(shame on the US. )

[Shadow]

The Daily Show Live From The White House

By Paul Craig Roberts

15/08/08 "ICH " -- - The Bush Regime imbeciles don’t know when to stop. With the world still rolling in laughter from John McCain’s claim that “in the 21st century nations don’t invade other nations,” the moronic US secretary of state declared: "This is not 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia, where Russia can threaten a neighbor, occupy a capital, overthrow a government and get away with it. Things have changed."

This from Condi Rice who is “proud” of the Bush Regime’s invasion of Iraq.-

This is not 1968. It is 40 years later, and roles have reversed. In the 21st century it is the United States that invades countries, occupies capitals, overthrows governments, and gets away with it.

The criminal Bush Regime has sent out its flunkies to huff and puff because Russia put its foot down against American hegemony on its border. Take your aggression elsewhere, the Russians said. We did not free constituent parts of our empire in order for them to become constituent parts of an American empire.

For years the Bush Regime has been fodder for the Daily Show. Condi Rice’s inane statement will keep the laughter rolling.

Source:http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20524.htm