Chile: Remember the Lessons of September 11

[quirk]

On September 11, 1973, the Pinochet military coup overthrew the popular and elected government of Salvador Allende — whose radical movement was backed by the broad support of millions of people, but which did not have an army (or armed people) of its own.

The lessons are stark:

1) It is not enough to lay hands on the existing state aparatus, it is necessary to break that old state (and army) up. Without a people’s army the people have nothing.

2) There is no crime that the U.S. imperialists are not capable of, and there is no way they (and the other reactionary powers of this world) will passively accept the emergence of revolutonary new societies — without plots of destabliziation and military white terror.

http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/chile1.jpg?w=300&h=250http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/chile2.jpg?w=401&h=599

http://mikeely.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/chile-remember-the-lessons-of-september-11/

[Kacen]

Pinochet saved Chile from Communism.

Then again, he was a capitalist, and obscenely paranoid, so I have mixed views on him.

[faceless]

Pinochet saved Chile from Communism.



Yes, and Hitler saved Germany from the Jews. :eusa_boohoo:

[Kacen]

Yes, and Hitler saved Germany from the Jews. :eusa_boohoo:


Let me put it this way:

One is a threat, one isn't unless you believe in conspiracy theories.

[faceless]

How was socialism a threat to Chile? If you mean it was a threat to the wealthy and the middle-class then yes, I'd agree - but they are a small percentage of the entire population.

The Nazis made propaganda films accusing the Jews of being verminous rats, sucking away German money and power - that's no conspiracy theory.

[Kacen]

How was socialism a threat to Chile? If you mean it was a threat to the wealthy and the middle-class then yes, I'd agree - but they are a small percentage of the entire population.

Well evil is a subjective term. I, for one, consider communism a threat.

The Nazis made propaganda films accusing the Jews of being verminous rats, sucking away German money and power - that's no conspiracy theory.

Most of Hitler's anti-semitism came from false conspiracy theories about Jews. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a good example; that is a proven forgery and completely false. He read that book and fell for it. He also read loads of Thule society garbage.

[faceless]

Oh that Hitler was such a silly thicko! Pinochet learned a few lessons from his charming leadership style though eh?

[Kacen]

Oh that Hitler was such a silly thicko! Pinochet learned a few lessons from his charming leadership style though eh?

Not really.

For one thing, Augusto Pinochet was in no way a Fascist (though it could be argued neither was Hitler), he was a capitalist and supported a free-market economy.

He wasn't racist as far as I know ether.

[faceless]

But according to you, Hitler wasn't really a racist either - he was just an idiot.

If Pinochet wasn't a fascist then the girl I remember coming to my school in the late 70s, after her family were forced out for daring to question the government, must have been a political mirage?

You can appear to be left or right and still be a fascist - Stalin told me that in a cheeky PM.

[Kacen]

But according to you, Hitler wasn't really a racist either - he was just an idiot.

Uh, he had a racial hierarchy set up, he even believed slavic people were subhuman.

If Pinochet wasn't a fascist then the girl I remember coming to my school in the late 70s, after her family were forced out for daring to question the government, must have been a political mirage?

You can appear to be left or right and still be a fascist - Stalin told me that in a cheeky PM.

One of the main components of Fascism is the Corporatist economic system, a "third way" between Capitalism and Communism.

Pinochet was an authoritarian capitalist.

And if I get people coming in here arguing that Capitalism and Corporatism are the same thing, then I am seriously going to explode, I am sick and tired of that.

[faceless]

The natural pinnacle of capitalism is a unitary power which controls everything through its ability to crush opposition. What's incorrect about that statement? Please feel free to explode - badly wired circuits have a habit of doing so, so you'll not be the first.

[Kacen]

The natural pinnacle of capitalism is a unitary power which controls everything through its ability to crush opposition. What's incorrect about that statement? Please feel free to explode - badly wired circuits have a habit of doing so, so you'll not be the first.

Capitalism is the economic ideology of privatization of everything and an unregulated economy. Libertarianism has this form of an economic system, combined with a small government (Minarchy) or an anarchy. What Pinochet practiced was an authoritarian form of capitalism, which has no official name, but was common amongst right-wing military juntas in South America.

Socialism/Communism is an economic the ideology of nationalizing all industries for the sake of promoting equality and making sure everyone lives equally. When coupled with Anarchism, it is Marxism, when coupled with an Authoritarian dictatorship, it becomes something like Stalinism, though there are so many variants of authoritarian Communism I'm not even going to bother putting them all.

Corporatism is an economic ideology that involves the nationalization of corporations into civic assemblies that represent economic, industrial, agrarian, social, cultural, and/or professional groups. When this economic system is coupled with authoritarianism, nationalism, and meritocracy, it becomes Fascism, and in some other cases Integralism.

This is the minimal definition for Fascism. Corporatism is a VERY important part of true Fascism. Mussolini even stated that Fascism should be more appropriately called Corporatism. He saw it as a "Third Way" (some of us call it Upwing) between Capitalism and Socialism/Communism. Many Fascists believed it was best used to curb what they perceived as cultural decadence brought on by socialism and capitalism.

When it is watered down and coupled with a smaller government or a Democracy, it is roughly Synarchism. Franklin Delano Roosevelt actually practiced Corporatism.

[faceless]

Are you going to agree with or deny my point? Or maybe just post another chunk of wikipedia?

I'll stick my waterproofs on if you're going to explode.

[Kacen]

That is not the natural pinnacle of Capitalism because by definition Capitalism is PRIVATIZATION.

In that sense, no country has ever been truly Capitalist. Most countries are mixed economies.

The closest thing to a truly capitalist country was the United States in the 1800's.

And no, I am not defending Capitalism (I am against Capitalism, and Socialism for that matter), I am merely defending the truth.

When a capitalist country begins to integrate corporations into the government it ceases being fully capitalist and becomes what can be considered a corrupt form of semi-corporatism, but not the same type of deliberate revolutionary corporate system as in a Fascist government.

[bay]

On September 11, 1973, the Pinochet military coup overthrew the popular and elected government of Salvador Allende — whose radical movement was backed by the broad support of millions of people, but which did not have an army (or armed people) of its own.

The lessons are stark:

1) It is not enough to lay hands on the existing state aparatus, it is necessary to break that old state (and army) up. Without a people’s army the people have nothing.

2) There is no crime that the U.S. imperialists are not capable of, and there is no way they (and the other reactionary powers of this world) will passively accept the emergence of revolutonary new societies — without plots of destabliziation and military white terror.

http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/chile1.jpg?w=300&h=250http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/chile2.jpg?w=401&h=599

http://mikeely.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/chile-remember-the-lessons-of-september-11/

Indeed remember Chile, remember Nicaraugua, and now they are after Venezuela. Beware the military industrial complex......it's a monster.

:wall::wall:

[Kacen]

I'm not really pro-Pinochet or anti-Pinochet, but you do know there are just about as much Chileans who like Pinochet as there are that dislike him, right?

[faceless]

by definition Capitalism is PRIVATIZATION.

yes, and ultimately the privatisation of every aspect of society. At which point your vote is meaningless unless it comes in the form of shares in the corporation.