US complains over Iran incident

[Al-Jazeera]

Tehran releases its own video of the confrontation in the Straits of Hormuz.

More... (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/08B38165-60FE-45A9-A01B-072E39C122E0.htm)

[Daithí]

Interesting. Who to believe? ;p

[quirk]

At first I would be very wary of the US claim as they have been shown many times in the past to have fabricated things to justify their agenda. If they can tell lies about alleged WMDs then they sure as hell can lie about this. The Bush administration has no credibility in my eyes.

[Saoirse]

Some tiny blue speed boats against modern destroyers...I don't see what the big deal is. I really doubt the U.S. is going to invade or bomb Iran but I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of a campagin to soften up the U.S. people for a U.S. backed Israeli airstrike. Which is more than likely why Bush is over there now. To help the Palestinians my ass.

[Daithí]

Some tiny blue speed boats against modern destroyers...I don't see what the big deal is. I really doubt the U.S. is going to invade or bomb Iran but I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of a campagin to soften up the U.S. people for a U.S. backed Israeli airstrike. Which is more than likely why Bush is over there now. To help the Palestinians my ass.

As well as his statement that Israel must end the occupation.
Stunt?

[Harris Brio]

The United States is exceedingly bogged down in Iraq. They aren't going anywhere in Afghanistan. Bhutto's assassination in Pakistan has left their policy in shambles. Whether the Turks are conducting black-ops in Turkey to make it look like the Kurds are responsible or whether the Kurds are actually blowing up Istanbul. The fact is Turkey is ready to invade Kurdistan, if that happens the US is will loose whatever control they have in Iraq. Oil won't be flowing from Kurdistan to Israel...

Iran may jusy be saying, "try us, or shut up." Americans talk too much, they think whomever they threaten that nation will get down on its hands a knees and be willing to get shafted...

On the other hand, if the US felt threatened they would open fire. The US has orders to open fire on a 9 yr old if they feel threatened. Zawahiri was killed several times on video. Two planes struck two buildings, three buildings fell down, on video. Osama is still making videos, and will continue to do so 50 yrs from now...

George Bush needs another war to ensure he can state the Wars Powers Act, thus guaranteeing his permenent placement at the helm...

[Daithí]

George Bush needs another war to ensure he can state the Wars Powers Act, thus guaranteeing his permenent placement at the helm...

Can you elaborate please? Sounds interesting.

[Harris Brio]

In the United States, the War Powers Act of 1973 (Public Law 93-148), also referred to as the War Powers Resolution (Sec. 1), allows the President to use military forces for 60 days, without a formal declaration of war by Congress. It also grants an additional 30 days upon a formal request by the President, regardless of Congress's agreement with the request.

With that in place Bush can declare Marshall Law...

Lincoln did it during the civil war, some say it takes congress to approve it too.. Congress is the only one that can suspend the writ of habeas corpus, which basically makes it martial law...

Technically speaking FEMA is more powerful than Congress. Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.


What could constitue a FEMA action?

The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis."

Just about anything...

[Finny]

Some tiny blue speed boats against modern destroyers...I don't see what the big deal is. I really doubt the U.S. is going to invade or bomb Iran but I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of a campagin to soften up the U.S. people for a U.S. backed Israeli airstrike. Which is more than likely why Bush is over there now. To help the Palestinians my ass.


Well 2 things here Saoirse.

1. A tiny speed boat was used in the attack of the USS Cole back in Oct 2000. Killing 19 service members. So that still ways heavy on US Navy personal.

2. Your conclusion on this softening up Americans is flawed. Israel can bomb Iran anytime they chose to. They don't answer to the US, If they did, Iran would have been bombed already. Israel bombed the Nuclear rector in Iraq without US public supporting them and this was during the time the US was backing Iraq and Saddam against Iran in the Iran/Iraq war. When the US was giving him the Nuclear, Chemical and Bio weapons.

[Finny]

The United States is exceedingly bogged down in Iraq. They aren't going anywhere in Afghanistan. Bhutto's assassination in Pakistan has left their policy in shambles. Whether the Turks are conducting black-ops in Turkey to make it look like the Kurds are responsible or whether the Kurds are actually blowing up Istanbul. The fact is Turkey is ready to invade Kurdistan, if that happens the US is will loose whatever control they have in Iraq. Oil won't be flowing from Kurdistan to Israel...

Iran may jusy be saying, "try us, or shut up." Americans talk too much, they think whomever they threaten that nation will get down on its hands a knees and be willing to get shafted...

On the other hand, if the US felt threatened they would open fire. The US has orders to open fire on a 9 yr old if they feel threatened. Zawahiri was killed several times on video. Two planes struck two buildings, three buildings fell down, on video. Osama is still making videos, and will continue to do so 50 yrs from now...

George Bush needs another war to ensure he can state the Wars Powers Act, thus guaranteeing his permenent placement at the helm...

Spot on..

[Finny]

In the United States, the War Powers Act of 1973 (Public Law 93-148), also referred to as the War Powers Resolution (Sec. 1), allows the President to use military forces for 60 days, without a formal declaration of war by Congress. It also grants an additional 30 days upon a formal request by the President, regardless of Congress's agreement with the request.

With that in place Bush can declare Marshall Law...

Lincoln did it during the civil war, some say it takes congress to approve it too.. Congress is the only one that can suspend the writ of habeas corpus, which basically makes it martial law...

Technically speaking FEMA is more powerful than Congress. Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.


What could constitue a FEMA action?

The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis."

Just about anything...

You are forgetting the Military Commissions Act..
MCA2006 (http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/29145res20070322.html)

[Harris Brio]

It just goes on and on same thing really. Kill our rights...

[Finny]

Yep. It's why I support Ron Paul..

But until people wake up.. Its gonna be the samething over and over..

[Saoirse]

Well 2 things here Saoirse.

1. A tiny speed boat was used in the attack of the USS Cole back in Oct 2000. Killing 19 service members. So that still ways heavy on US Navy personal.

Iran is not Al Qaeda.

2. Your conclusion on this softening up Americans is flawed. Israel can bomb Iran anytime they chose to. They don't answer to the US, If they did, Iran would have been bombed already. Israel bombed the Nuclear rector in Iraq without US public supporting them and this was during the time the US was backing Iraq and Saddam against Iran in the Iran/Iraq war. When the US was giving him the Nuclear, Chemical and Bio weapons.

Israel couldn't even continue it's bombing campaign against Hezbollah without U.S. support both politically and directly in the form of JDAMs. The situation in the middle east for the U.S. is far different that it was nearly 30 years ago. Now they are directly involved. If Israel bombs Iran anything can happen. When they bombed Iraq in '81 Saddam was already committed to fighting Iran and could hardly retaliate. If Israel does go ahead with the bombing and the U.S. is pulled into the conflict this little incident will be in the U.S. public's consciousness.

[Finny]

Iran is not Al Qaeda.

Not saying Iran is Al-Qaeda. I am saying the tactic was used and can be used again by anyone. So you become protective and watchful of such things.



Israel couldn't even continue it's bombing campaign against Hezbollah without U.S. support both politically and directly in the form of JDAMs. The situation in the middle east for the U.S. is far different that it was nearly 30 years ago. Now they are directly involved. If Israel bombs Iran anything can happen. When they bombed Iraq in '81 Saddam was already committed to fighting Iran and could hardly retaliate. If Israel does go ahead with the bombing and the U.S. is pulled into the conflict this little incident will be in the U.S. public's consciousness.

The selling of JDAMs is true, but on the other head the US buys ammo from Israel as well (not that its admitted to because that would show the US can't keep up with Iraq or Afghanistan). But politically it did not matter, the US let Israel do its thing. You know damn well the UN doesn't scare Israel either. So whatever the UN passed wouldn't have stopped Israel.

Who is directly involved? The US does not set policy for Israel. Its Israel that sets its policy. But yes anything can happen. Iran would go after the US and Israel by using Hezbollah, and its Military would attack into Iraq.

You are making another mistake in my opinion. Iraq even not being involved with Iran could not have fought back. Jordan blocks the way. Jordan and a number of other countries feared Iraq and it having a Nuclear reactor. Same as it is now with Iran.

Yes, of course. But America already wants to take out Iran. We'd clap and cheer for Israel doing it, then watch as 100,000 US troops are slaughtered in Iraq.

[quirk]

Israel puts alot of time and effort into influenceing public opinion within the US. The US media is even more biased and pro Israel than the media within Israel itself. A great documentary which goes into this in detail is
PEACE, PROPAGANDA AND THE PROMISED LAND: U.S. MEDIA & THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT which can be viewed on line here. (http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=169)

[Saoirse]

Yes, of course. But America already wants to take out Iran. We'd clap and cheer for Israel doing it, then watch as 100,000 US troops are slaughtered in Iraq.

The American people don't want to take out Iran, at least a majority of them do not. They are sick of Iraq as it is, they don't want another mess on their hands. And in comes the propaganda to make them think they are being attacked by a middle east country with "no provocation". Olmert's ratings are as low as Bush. He isn't going to do anything without knowing 100% that he has U.S. backing. Since Iran's nuclear sites are numerous, underground and no one knows exactly where all of them are, Israel is going to need all the U.S. satellite info it can get.

[Finny]

Israel puts alot of time and effort into influenceing public opinion within the US. The US media is even more biased and pro Israel than the media within Israel itself. A great documentary which goes into this in detail is
PEACE, PROPAGANDA AND THE PROMISED LAND: U.S. MEDIA & THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT which can be viewed on line here. (http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=169)

I've watched it. I never denied that Israel doesn't do that. What I've said is that Israel usually does what it wants even without popular opinion. AIPAC, ADL and other play a big role in it.

[Harris Brio]

The war in Iraq is Israeli engineered and Saudi inspired. Reason being Saudi Arabia is running out of oil, which threatens, Israeli oil supplies. The US does not get more than 7%of its oil from the Middle East. Israel gets its oil from the Middle East. With Saudi Arabia running dry, the only other nation close enough to keep a constant and secure supply of oil to the Israelis is Iraq. The reason Iran seems to be a threat to the Israelis is because once the US pulls out of Iraq the Shia in the south will align themselves with Iran and most probably the Turks will invade Kurdistan. The oil pipeline going from Kurdistan to Israel will be shut off. Any oil from southern Iraq going to Israel will stop.

The Saudi family is orignally from Iraq. Saudis will sell oil to Israel while claiming it isn't.

[Finny]

Don't forget there is a huge pipleline in Iraq called Hafia which use to bring Oil to Israel directly from the fields of Mosul.

It the pumping stations H1, H2, H3 were one of the first things captured by the US Military.

[Harris Brio]

It was shut down, and the oil went to Syria, but they shut down the Syrain oil connection and re-opened the Israeli one. I wonder who built that pipeline to Haifa, had to of been the British during the Second World War...